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[Music]

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hi guys Ryan Sprague here from somewhere

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in the skies and uh we have so much to

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cover tonight with our guest you know

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him very well in the UFO field in fact

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he was the first guest on somewhere in

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the skies and it's just uh taken off

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from there so I will be forever grateful

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to him for that so let's not waste any

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more time let's bring him in he's going

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to be answering your listener questions

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tonight this is sort of a ask me

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anything of Our Guest UFO historian and

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researcher Richard Dolan rich

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welcome back to somewhere in the skies

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oh it's so nice to be back here I'm very

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happy to be here with you again what a

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pleasure

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thank you you know and it has been a

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crazy few years since you and I last

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spoke about UFOs a lot has happened and

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um I kind of want to cover a lot of that

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with you tonight but I want to go as

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current as possible it's the only thing

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being talked about right now in the news

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cycle and that's the balloon and

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I I don't know your thoughts on all of

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this but I would love to get your

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perspective about what's going on

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because it does sort of tie in to a lot

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of what's going on in the UFO world now

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and and arrow and all of that stuff so

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um I'm just gonna flat out ask the

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question what do you make of this whole

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China spy balloon thing where do you

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think it's heading and does this have

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absolutely anything to do with the UFO

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and government conversation going on

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right now uh we'll answer your last

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question first I'm going to think no I

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don't think this is a strictly speaking

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UFO related matter however it is

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interesting and it's important uh when

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you look at the Contemporary

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geopolitical realignment that's

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happening in the world right now uh what

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what we're seeing obviously is that the

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United States is essentially uh sort of

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fumbled away

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um it's geopolitical dominance over the

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world I mean it was inevitable that that

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would happen but I I certainly think

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that things have happened in the last

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year and and more that have Excel

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accelerated that so with China

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uh so China said that this balloon was

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for commercial purposes only I don't

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know who really believes that at all uh

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in fact this morning uh I believe the US

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has made the claim

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that they have uh proof or what have you

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that this is an Espionage balloon

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uh now having said you know I will never

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ever take anything the United States

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says as its word the US does not have

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good uh record of honesty but it's

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probably true I would say this is

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probably a spy balloon uh it's a not an

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unusual thing that China would do that

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um the real question is like is there

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significance to this I mean first of all

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the US is acting like it's shocked and

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offended that its sovereignty has been

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invaded by a spy balloon when in fact

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the United States is of all Nations the

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number one that violates the sovereignty

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of other countries the US has always

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done that and the US will always do that

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as long as it has the capability

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so uh and that includes all kinds of

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Espionage that includes all kinds of uh

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you know color Revolution Shenanigans

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and the like I mean this is what the US

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does better than anyone else in the

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world China can't compete with that in

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the least

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so I love how you know the US is all

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offended about this the real problem is

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that I think with China they're still

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fuming uh they're Furious over the visit

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of a few months ago by Nancy Pelosi when

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she was

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um you know leader of the house

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um

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she

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makes that trip to Taiwan which really

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infuriated the Chinese I don't think

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Americans and people in the west

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appreciated just how angry the Chinese

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were and a lot of American Delight will

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screw you China you don't know in Taiwan

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who do you think you are but in China's

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uh position they've been very clear

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about this that Taiwan is part of China

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and so this was a direct offense

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particularly since Pelosi was the same

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member of the same party as the U.S

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President Biden so it was taken as very

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much kind of an official thing

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so the Chinese I think were angry about

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that I think maybe it made them a little

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more willing to just uh piss off The

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Americans on this and then uh I think

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what sealed the deal in my mind about

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this is the Chinese and the aftermath of

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this after the U.S shot down the balloon

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with an F-22 no less amazing uh the

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Chinese

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said well the next time a U.S aircraft

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comes

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near Chinese airspace maybe we'll do

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something

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so that was a definite ratcheting up of

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hostilities between us and China and

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this is very unlike China by the way and

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if you look at Chinese uh history China

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is not

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a truly

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um expansion like a geographically

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expansionist power it really never has

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been China has an Empire within China

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that's it they've got Tibet okay you can

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argue about that but China doesn't go

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around the world trying to switch out

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governments and and conquer them uh they

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don't have wars China's last real war

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was in 1979 against the Vietnamese and

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they didn't do well by the way so China

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is not a a militaristic power in the

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sense that the United States is but I

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think China is now feeling as their oats

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they are definitely quite powerful now

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everyone knows it they've got

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the world's strongest or second

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strongest economy and they have a

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military that is

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a very substantial military now so I

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think China is

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I I think it's their I would say their

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Fury over the recent Taiwan thing

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and they are now coming up with reasons

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to uh ratchet and also the other reason

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is that who's afraid of the United

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States anymore it does seem to be

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uh performance performative in in if I

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can use that word uh it seems to be a

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very a game and we're now learning that

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there's more balloons that have been

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spotted that the US has known about for

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a while in any that kind of plays into I

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guess the second half of that that

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question

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um we have this new office Arrow that's

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supposed to be in you know a resolution

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office figure out what these things are

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and if they're a threat and uh even in

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this current this recent Pentagon report

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we learned the term balloon-like

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entities and that could not be more

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telling than what we're seeing play out

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right now so what's a good point if

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anything does this have to do rich with

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UFOs anything what's striking about the

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conversation coming out of the military

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on UFOs or UAP now as they like to say

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is how utterly tepid it is and how they

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still have this pretense of saying

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things like well we're trying to

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understand what this is we're looking

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into it and when we find something out

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we'll let you people know like what are

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you talking about you've been dealing

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with this

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and highly dramatic uh shockingly

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dramatic ways for 80 years minimum

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we know this we have a detailed

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historical record of it we have a very

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good case for crash retrievals of UFOs

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on multiple occasions uh within the US

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and Beyond the US and I was just

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reviewing um the uh it was a old classic

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case from 1957 in Brazil the ubatuba

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case where an object was seen by

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beachgoers uh at the Brazilian Atlantic

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Coast coming in

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looking like it was going to crash it's

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shooting straight up and then exploding

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into uh hundreds of shards and pieces

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looking like fireworks

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uh in the aftermath of that the United

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States the U.S military came in I think

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it was like two or three days later the

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U.S has been on top of this situation

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since the beginning and so what we have

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from the Pentagon are these uh this

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pretense this game of pretend that they

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like to play which is okay well yeah

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we're looking into this and maybe there

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is something there

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this is kind of where we were in the

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1950s

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so that I guess what I'm saying is never

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ever expect honesty or good faith from

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the United States government on anything

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having to do with the matter of UFOs you

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may from time to time get a member of

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Congress who gets worked up and

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interested about this that can happen

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that is certainly possible but that's a

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that's a whole bit different from the

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institutional apparatus of the military

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the National Security State

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to do anything honest about this subject

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in terms of actually

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uh reporting to the public they're just

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they're never going to do it they'll

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never do this honestly I don't think you

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should ever expect anything out of them

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unless they are pushed to the wall

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by either a leak or some kind of

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information that comes out that's

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unexpected that forces a statement from

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them in which case

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the pattern has always been that they

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will give as absolutely little as they

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have to before they can just run away

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from the subject and that's what even in

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the last five years we've seen this

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um we may want to get into this if you

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want but I I'm not one of these people

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who believes that the two original New

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York Times stories were an initiated

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deep State operation

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I think that that was a reflective

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reaction to something that was going to

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come out you know your ttsa back in

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October of 2017.

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um making their announcement that

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they're an organization you had Elizondo

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and melon in the background getting the

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uh three of the videos Declassified that

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was a real score by the way

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they had friends and they had enemies

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within the Pentagon and they used their

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friends to get that Declassified my

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point is at the New York Times article

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in my view

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was uh

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something that Leslie came about

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Blumenthal lobbied to get done that is

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true but I think the New York Times

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leadership decided you know what the

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story is going to come out why don't we

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be the ones who break it we'll get out

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in front of it and I think that's what

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happened and I think what you've seen

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since then is the Deep State or the

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National Security State

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uh very effectively very effectively

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responding to this uh and slowly but

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surely taking control of it a narrative

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once again as they are used to doing so

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they've given up a little bit they

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they've now you know more than five

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years ago

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they would play this other game of

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00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:04,620
pretend like there's no UFOs we we don't

278
00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:05,760
notice anything yet there's nothing

279
00:11:09,949 --> 00:11:07,620
remember you know 10 years ago Steve

280
00:11:11,230 --> 00:11:09,959
Bassett did his

281
00:11:13,550 --> 00:11:11,240
um what the hell was that called a

282
00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:13,560
disclosure petition to the Obama White

283
00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:16,620
House back then right yeah and the and

284
00:11:22,130 --> 00:11:19,560
the answer that he got was

285
00:11:23,930 --> 00:11:22,140
a classic lie right out of the Obama

286
00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:23,940
White House which is that we've seen no

287
00:11:27,290 --> 00:11:25,800
evidence whatsoever of any UFOs that are

288
00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:27,300
anything unusual when at the same time

289
00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:29,160
they had the the

290
00:11:32,329 --> 00:11:31,260
um atip office that was running at that

291
00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:32,339
very time

292
00:11:38,269 --> 00:11:36,360
that was investigating UFOs but they lie

293
00:11:40,610 --> 00:11:38,279
they lie at every opportunity they can

294
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:40,620
and when then that lie no longer is

295
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:42,420
tenable they they come to a different

296
00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:43,440
position

297
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:44,820
and I think that's all what we're seeing

298
00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:47,519
so with arrow I'm

299
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,140
you know there are people who say well

300
00:11:53,329 --> 00:11:51,360
you know there's witness protection

301
00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:53,339
um measures that are inside there which

302
00:11:57,170 --> 00:11:55,260
is true there is

303
00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:57,180
there are these measures that are that

304
00:12:00,769 --> 00:11:59,100
are in place so will that make a

305
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:00,779
difference we'll have to wait and see

306
00:12:06,829 --> 00:12:04,260
it's possible it's also possible that

307
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,839
this will be a whole lot of

308
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:08,399
smoke and mirrors

309
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:11,040
so I'm I'm not at a point where I will

310
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,920
ever trust the this

311
00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:15,839
these government bureaucracies until

312
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,339
they actually show otherwise and they

313
00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:18,720
haven't yet

314
00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:20,640
so I mean think of all of the the

315
00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:21,959
so-called reports that we've had up

316
00:12:26,690 --> 00:12:23,160
until now in the last couple of years

317
00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:26,700
first was 144 UAP sightings then last

318
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:28,680
year it was well we were up to over 400.

319
00:12:33,310 --> 00:12:30,660
have we gotten any details about any

320
00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:33,320
single one of them no not a single case

321
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:35,160
not one

322
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:37,620
yeah that one so this is how they

323
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:40,560
operate and they obviously know that

324
00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:42,600
they have a sufficient

325
00:12:46,009 --> 00:12:44,700
control and cooperation with the

326
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:46,019
mainstream media

327
00:12:48,829 --> 00:12:47,279
they're not getting pushed on this

328
00:12:50,750 --> 00:12:48,839
they're not getting pressured no one in

329
00:12:53,210 --> 00:12:50,760
Congress is really pushing back here and

330
00:12:56,930 --> 00:12:53,220
there a couple of Congress members are

331
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:56,940
you know pushing just mildly but nothing

332
00:13:01,850 --> 00:12:59,040
nothing significant

333
00:13:02,990 --> 00:13:01,860
so I don't I don't expect anything out

334
00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:03,000
of Arrow

335
00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:06,540
I would have be I'd love to be wrong so

336
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:09,540
let us wait and see but so far they are

337
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:12,980
unfortunately fulfilling my prophecies

338
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:16,079
you and me both I know I think it's been

339
00:13:20,569 --> 00:13:18,300
uh it's been an interesting Journey

340
00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:20,579
since that article came out I don't know

341
00:13:24,410 --> 00:13:22,860
what to make of any of it but you're

342
00:13:26,750 --> 00:13:24,420
right we'll have to wait and see

343
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,760
um well that kind of brings us up to

344
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:28,320
current day the other current day thing

345
00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:30,000
I wanted to touch on before I move to

346
00:13:37,790 --> 00:13:33,660
our amazing listener questions that I

347
00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:37,800
had to narrow down profusely uh is UFOs

348
00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:40,680
for the 21st century mind uh the up the

349
00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:43,980
updated Expanded Edition of the book

350
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,459
um 17 new pages right uh let us know

351
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:50,639
what what's what's new in it uh what

352
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:53,100
have you learned since the original came

353
00:13:58,009 --> 00:13:55,620
out and what can people expect in the uh

354
00:13:59,629 --> 00:13:58,019
the updated version if you don't mind oh

355
00:14:02,210 --> 00:13:59,639
yeah thanks for asking that was a nice

356
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:02,220
surprise it's it's uh as you just said

357
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:04,980
it's about 70 new pages that the

358
00:14:11,449 --> 00:14:07,440
original did not have nearly all of that

359
00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:11,459
is to update the last decade or so of

360
00:14:16,370 --> 00:14:14,940
UFO history so I wrote a very very long

361
00:14:20,329 --> 00:14:16,380
chapter

362
00:14:23,629 --> 00:14:20,339
book now I believe covering uh the

363
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:23,639
entire UFO subject from 2013 through the

364
00:14:27,889 --> 00:14:26,880
very end of 2022 so just uh a month and

365
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:27,899
a half ago

366
00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:31,380
so it takes the story fully I think very

367
00:14:36,350 --> 00:14:34,500
well up to date to be honest it covered

368
00:14:38,569 --> 00:14:36,360
um

369
00:14:41,689 --> 00:14:38,579
you know where where the UFO field was

370
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:41,699
in 2013 2014 just before things really

371
00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:43,440
started to change a bit in the public

372
00:14:47,689 --> 00:14:44,820
Realm

373
00:14:51,889 --> 00:14:47,699
I had a lot to say about the events of

374
00:14:53,689 --> 00:14:51,899
2017 and the coverage that transformed

375
00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:53,699
the public debate on UFOs

376
00:14:58,189 --> 00:14:56,220
and uh

377
00:15:00,730 --> 00:14:58,199
covered a lot of that in a lot of detail

378
00:15:03,710 --> 00:15:00,740
actually the politics event and so forth

379
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,720
uh talked about some interesting recent

380
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,519
UFO sightings in the last decade that

381
00:15:10,129 --> 00:15:07,920
some of which most of which are really

382
00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:10,139
not well known but uh are interesting

383
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:12,420
and I wanted to just discuss to talk

384
00:15:16,370 --> 00:15:14,100
about you know what how is the

385
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:16,380
phenomenon continuing today

386
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:19,500
and then I did a kind of revised look at

387
00:15:24,530 --> 00:15:22,320
our trajectory as a society and where I

388
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:24,540
think we're headed as opposed to a

389
00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:25,680
decade ago when I wrote the first

390
00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:27,420
edition of that book

391
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,540
so um one of the main things that I have

392
00:15:34,129 --> 00:15:32,160
argued

393
00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:34,139
I put this actually in my other recent

394
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:34,980
book

395
00:15:38,930 --> 00:15:36,839
um the alien agendas

396
00:15:40,970 --> 00:15:38,940
I I firmly believe we are in the middle

397
00:15:42,350 --> 00:15:40,980
of a global Revolution that's going on

398
00:15:44,569 --> 00:15:42,360
right now

399
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,579
and that has an effect on the UFO

400
00:15:48,050 --> 00:15:46,560
subject by global Revolution I simply

401
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:48,060
mean a

402
00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:50,160
um how do I put it a centrally organized

403
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,980
coordinated International Revolution

404
00:15:58,189 --> 00:15:54,720
mostly against the people against

405
00:16:00,050 --> 00:15:58,199
traditional rights that we've had uh you

406
00:16:02,410 --> 00:16:00,060
know I I don't how do I do I need to

407
00:16:05,629 --> 00:16:02,420
explain this anymore basically a 24 7

408
00:16:08,689 --> 00:16:05,639
panopticon surveillance state

409
00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:08,699
um is one aspect of it and there's a lot

410
00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:10,380
of other aspects going on there I think

411
00:16:14,629 --> 00:16:12,120
we're looking at the Advent of very

412
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:14,639
strong AI that is a component of it but

413
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:16,440
what we're seeing is a an intentional

414
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:18,480
reorganic reorganization of human

415
00:16:23,090 --> 00:16:20,720
society in a very different way

416
00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:23,100
essentially turning us into

417
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,040
um kind of a big technological anthill

418
00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:28,160
and so that being the case

419
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:30,079
massive

420
00:16:34,850 --> 00:16:32,760
Global changes have to happen to the

421
00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:34,860
social structure to the intellectual to

422
00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:37,620
our psychology to our politics to our

423
00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:39,540
rights and you see this happening you

424
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,740
know covet was a very perfect

425
00:16:46,009 --> 00:16:43,199
opportunity for them to do that

426
00:16:47,689 --> 00:16:46,019
but um they'll take any opportunity they

427
00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:47,699
can the current war in Ukraine and

428
00:16:51,889 --> 00:16:49,620
Russia I think will offer offer its own

429
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:51,899
opportunities to further this revolution

430
00:16:57,050 --> 00:16:54,120
and the reason that I I'm bringing it up

431
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,060
here I talk about it in the revised UFOs

432
00:17:01,490 --> 00:16:59,279
for the 21st century mine but it's

433
00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:01,500
important because when you are moving

434
00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:04,380
into a very

435
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:06,740
potentially dark

436
00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:09,360
quasi-totalitarian Global Society you

437
00:17:13,610 --> 00:17:11,160
have to ask yourself how does that

438
00:17:15,289 --> 00:17:13,620
affect the UFO conversation

439
00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:15,299
and I think it does have an effect on

440
00:17:19,689 --> 00:17:17,040
the UFO conversation so what I think

441
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:19,699
we're seeing is in the public

442
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:24,000
establishment domain it is now okay

443
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:26,400
to ask you know the basic tepid

444
00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:28,860
questions so like hmm is there something

445
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:30,600
out there maybe there is something out

446
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,820
there let's look into it you know that

447
00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:34,320
level that's okay

448
00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:37,380
that's okay what's not okay is to go

449
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:39,720
over the red line into conspiracy

450
00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:42,480
accusations and cover up accusations and

451
00:17:46,370 --> 00:17:44,460
and so into a deep analysis and the

452
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:46,380
reason that that's not permitted and you

453
00:17:52,190 --> 00:17:47,880
can see that this is still all these

454
00:17:55,370 --> 00:17:52,200
years now into this new era or in 2023

455
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:55,380
and we are still in it is impossible

456
00:17:59,690 --> 00:17:58,260
to have an open discussion on the

457
00:18:01,490 --> 00:17:59,700
structure of the UFO cover-up and

458
00:18:03,409 --> 00:18:01,500
conspiracy International conspiracy of

459
00:18:05,570 --> 00:18:03,419
silence and the reason for that is that

460
00:18:08,330 --> 00:18:05,580
because we are now in an era in which

461
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,340
you and I are not supposed to believe in

462
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,039
conspiracy theories we all know this

463
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:13,200
what what is a bigger conspiracy theory

464
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:16,320
frankly than the UFO cover-up I ask you

465
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:19,200
probably not anything or it's right up

466
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:22,559
there so can you imagine uh

467
00:18:27,049 --> 00:18:25,020
President Joe Biden saying well yeah the

468
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:27,059
UFO thing that's that's real but don't

469
00:18:30,770 --> 00:18:29,039
believe in the other conspiracy theories

470
00:18:33,890 --> 00:18:30,780
even though we lied to you on this like

471
00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:33,900
massive one uh yeah that's kind of true

472
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,880
uh but don't believe in the others they

473
00:18:40,970 --> 00:18:38,160
cannot do that it's absolutely not

474
00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:40,980
tenable so the UFO

475
00:18:45,770 --> 00:18:43,980
conspiracy angle must be suppressed at

476
00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:45,780
all costs and you can see this is

477
00:18:50,450 --> 00:18:47,880
continuing what's happening there's been

478
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:50,460
some some tension along those lines if

479
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,559
you go back to 2020

480
00:18:56,210 --> 00:18:54,240
uh one of the New York Times articles

481
00:19:00,289 --> 00:18:56,220
that Leslie and Ralph put out was in

482
00:19:04,190 --> 00:19:00,299
July of 2020. they came this close

483
00:19:05,529 --> 00:19:04,200
to uh in that one admission they had by

484
00:19:07,789 --> 00:19:05,539
Dr Eric Davis

485
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:07,799
very close to admitting that there were

486
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:10,320
actual crash retrievals of UFOs but they

487
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:11,940
didn't step over the line

488
00:19:15,650 --> 00:19:14,160
and you've noticed nobody has approached

489
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,660
that line since not within the

490
00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:17,280
establishment culture anyway

491
00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:19,740
so that's I think is a red line and I

492
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:21,539
think the global Revolution that we're

493
00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:23,820
going through is in the process of

494
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,700
attempting to transform Human Society at

495
00:19:30,289 --> 00:19:28,320
a very fundamental level into one of

496
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,299
very tight control

497
00:19:33,529 --> 00:19:32,160
we're moving into an era of great great

498
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,539
control

499
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,720
so that it's going to be

500
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:38,880
the real interesting thing to see from

501
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:41,520
moving here forward is

502
00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:43,200
how will that tension resolve itself

503
00:19:46,669 --> 00:19:44,460
well

504
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:46,679
will the hammer come down fully will the

505
00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:48,299
lid come down fully and be screwed down

506
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:51,000
so that there will never be a genuine

507
00:19:56,990 --> 00:19:54,240
conversation about the UFO conspiracy

508
00:19:58,669 --> 00:19:57,000
or will it be a breakthrough somehow

509
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:58,679
that is really the question we need to

510
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,440
be looking at because all signs point to

511
00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:03,360
the attempts by the National Security

512
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:06,840
International Security apparatus to

513
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,440
keep this subject safe and defanged for

514
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:12,480
as long as humanly possible

515
00:20:15,770 --> 00:20:13,919
if they can keep it going for another

516
00:20:17,870 --> 00:20:15,780
five years they'll do that if they can

517
00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:17,880
keep it going for 50 years for a hundred

518
00:20:21,890 --> 00:20:20,100
years or more they will do that as well

519
00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:21,900
they will keep this

520
00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:24,299
uh they will keep the fundamental truths

521
00:20:27,770 --> 00:20:25,860
away from the public for as long as

522
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,780
absolutely possible that's what I

523
00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:29,760
believe

524
00:20:35,390 --> 00:20:32,220
interesting well I look forward to

525
00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:35,400
reading the updated Edition uh to learn

526
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:37,860
more about that for sure rich thank you

527
00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:41,039
um well let's let's move to these

528
00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:43,140
listener questions uh because we've got

529
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:45,240
a lot a lot to cover

530
00:20:51,169 --> 00:20:48,299
um sort of every aspect of ethology I

531
00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:51,179
try to condense into these questions for

532
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,700
you so this should be pretty fun

533
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,919
um our first few questions come from our

534
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,840
patrons who get priority to ask you

535
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:59,039
questions

536
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:01,260
um and then you are kind enough to stick

537
00:21:06,049 --> 00:21:04,200
around uh over on patreon to answer a

538
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:06,059
few more of their questions so I

539
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:08,640
appreciate you doing that too but um our

540
00:21:13,370 --> 00:21:11,039
first one here comes from metal matte on

541
00:21:15,650 --> 00:21:13,380
patreon and Anthony actually on Twitter

542
00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:15,660
they had a very similar question what do

543
00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:17,880
you think about the details of the

544
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:19,500
Nimitz case and what do you think the

545
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:23,280
Tic Tacs may have been I mean still to

546
00:21:26,990 --> 00:21:25,140
this day we're wondering

547
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:27,000
um do you have any personal thoughts or

548
00:21:32,330 --> 00:21:30,600
or observations of what these objects

549
00:21:34,909 --> 00:21:32,340
might have been this case that we've

550
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:34,919
kind of held up to such high esteem for

551
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:37,919
the past five years or so yes yeah I do

552
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,559
so first thing is to recognize the year

553
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,000
in which this event occurred so it was

554
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:44,400
November of 2004.

555
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:48,960
so uh let's just do a little bit of

556
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:51,840
uh checking off the the list and and uh

557
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:54,240
checking off who could be a suspect and

558
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,740
who could not so let's look at

559
00:21:59,330 --> 00:21:57,360
International Powers first Russia and

560
00:22:01,730 --> 00:21:59,340
China come to mind

561
00:22:03,649 --> 00:22:01,740
uh you know the US and and Russia and

562
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,659
the US and China are essentially enemies

563
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:05,760
we're not even adversaries anymore

564
00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:08,460
but in 2004 this was not the case uh in

565
00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:12,360
2004 uh Russia was trying actively to

566
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:14,280
join NATO this is kind of a forgotten

567
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,260
thing and the U.S basically made sure

568
00:22:21,409 --> 00:22:18,480
that did not happen but Russia under

569
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:21,419
Putin at that time was very much trying

570
00:22:25,490 --> 00:22:23,400
to work with the West on a hall of range

571
00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:25,500
range of issues

572
00:22:30,049 --> 00:22:28,380
and uh furthermore Russia's military was

573
00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:30,059
probably at the lowest point it had ever

574
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,700
been around that time they were not

575
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:35,039
they're much much more potent now but

576
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:36,600
not in 2004.

577
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:39,000
so I think it's absolutely out of the

578
00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:40,020
question that Russia would have had

579
00:22:43,549 --> 00:22:41,580
anything to do with that and I would say

580
00:22:47,149 --> 00:22:43,559
the same regarding China

581
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:47,159
uh China in 2004 was a growing power

582
00:22:50,930 --> 00:22:48,960
they were growing economically they were

583
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:50,940
working on their military but uh to say

584
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,159
that they had Tick Tock you Tic Tac UFO

585
00:22:57,230 --> 00:22:55,679
technology I think would be absurd and

586
00:22:59,690 --> 00:22:57,240
there's absolutely nothing to support

587
00:23:01,610 --> 00:22:59,700
that so I would leave out uh foreign

588
00:23:03,049 --> 00:23:01,620
adversaries and you know there's no no

589
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:03,059
other nation that you could really

590
00:23:06,770 --> 00:23:05,039
imagine that would possibly have done

591
00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:06,780
that so then you ask about U.S black

592
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:08,460
budget capabilities and this is

593
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,039
something that people have wondered

594
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:13,679
I wonder sometimes I don't think so I

595
00:23:17,090 --> 00:23:15,480
don't believe that this is uh part of

596
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:17,100
like a breakaway civilization or

597
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:19,080
Advanced black budget for a few reasons

598
00:23:24,289 --> 00:23:21,720
one that uh

599
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:24,299
you know as we know that the details of

600
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:25,679
this story you have Kevin Day who ran

601
00:23:30,289 --> 00:23:28,559
radar over at the US's Princeton as part

602
00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:30,299
of the Nimitz battle group there

603
00:23:36,049 --> 00:23:33,000
had been tracking these UAP UFOs in the

604
00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:36,059
atmosphere for several weeks

605
00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:39,780
uh multiple ones not just one object

606
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:43,220
there's large numbers of them they were

607
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:47,640
hanging around if we could say uh in the

608
00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:49,320
area where the U.S was conducting war

609
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:50,760
war exercises

610
00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:53,100
in the Pacific

611
00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:55,500
so it seems to have been

612
00:24:01,130 --> 00:23:58,380
a kind of observational thing uh kind of

613
00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:01,140
a monitoring thing I mean we're guessing

614
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:02,700
here but there was certainly a lot of

615
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:03,840
activity

616
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:05,700
uh the other thing that you want to keep

617
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:07,919
in mind is that when

618
00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:11,460
uh fravers uh Team were vectored in to

619
00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:14,520
examine this unknown object that you

620
00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:15,960
know now we're on November 14th Kevin

621
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,700
Day sees him again he's like ah they're

622
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,440
out there we've got a couple of fa-18

623
00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:22,080
super Hornets let's see if we can Vector

624
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:23,280
them in so

625
00:24:29,690 --> 00:24:26,520
uh the the two aircraft get there

626
00:24:32,270 --> 00:24:29,700
and they didn't just see one object

627
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:32,280
above the water the Tic Tac UFO there

628
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:35,520
was a larger object below the water

629
00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:37,980
according to the accounts that have come

630
00:24:43,310 --> 00:24:39,480
to us

631
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:43,320
so we're talking a an explicit Uso that

632
00:24:46,490 --> 00:24:44,340
was there

633
00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:46,500
as well as this other object

634
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,080
so if we're talking

635
00:24:53,690 --> 00:24:51,840
a very Advanced black budget

636
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:53,700
this is this is beyond anything that

637
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:55,620
I've even had any reason to think that

638
00:25:01,970 --> 00:24:59,039
we can do in terms of Uso technology and

639
00:25:04,370 --> 00:25:01,980
and the like and then you know the

640
00:25:06,049 --> 00:25:04,380
entire confrontational attitude that

641
00:25:09,770 --> 00:25:06,059
happened

642
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:09,780
that in Pursuit at ensued excuse me

643
00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:12,600
uh it just doesn't look like a black

644
00:25:16,190 --> 00:25:14,580
budget operation to me because frankly

645
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:16,200
the

646
00:25:23,769 --> 00:25:21,720
absolutely in line with capabilities

647
00:25:26,930 --> 00:25:23,779
that the US military has been recording

648
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:26,940
explicitly since the 1940s

649
00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:29,400
uh the the speed with which the Tic Tac

650
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:31,559
departed I estimate to be in the

651
00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:32,820
neighborhood of ten thousand miles per

652
00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:34,919
hour maybe more but guess what we have

653
00:25:40,909 --> 00:25:38,220
we have documents from the 1940s that

654
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,919
are military documents that discuss the

655
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:43,200
tracking of these objects at comparable

656
00:25:49,010 --> 00:25:45,480
speeds way back then

657
00:25:51,230 --> 00:25:49,020
70 to almost 80 years ago

658
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:51,240
so in other words the Tic Tac encounter

659
00:25:56,990 --> 00:25:53,760
is part of a long-standing

660
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:57,000
pattern of encounters that the United

661
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:58,500
States military has had with these

662
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:01,440
objects and let's remember not just the

663
00:26:06,590 --> 00:26:03,779
United States military but militaries of

664
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:06,600
other nations the old Soviet Union and

665
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:08,340
all of the western allies you can think

666
00:26:12,190 --> 00:26:09,840
of have had these types of encounters

667
00:26:15,049 --> 00:26:12,200
with objects of comparable

668
00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:15,059
performance capabilities so

669
00:26:19,730 --> 00:26:17,460
what does that leave us that leaves me

670
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:19,740
thinking we are dealing with a

671
00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:21,779
technology that does not come from our

672
00:26:26,510 --> 00:26:23,880
civilization that's what I believe I

673
00:26:29,390 --> 00:26:26,520
think the Tic Tac UFO was not made by us

674
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,400
whether American Russian Chinese or any

675
00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:31,440
other civilization that we know of on

676
00:26:36,649 --> 00:26:33,960
Earth and was in fact

677
00:26:39,049 --> 00:26:36,659
is the product of

678
00:26:40,850 --> 00:26:39,059
a civilization that is more advanced and

679
00:26:42,409 --> 00:26:40,860
that presumably is not not from here

680
00:26:45,529 --> 00:26:42,419
that's what I think

681
00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:45,539
okay thank you uh well you did mention

682
00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:48,360
the term Breakaway civilization which is

683
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:50,700
basically a term that you coined in your

684
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:54,000
early research and and work and uh mark

685
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:56,700
on patreon asks you used to have quite a

686
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:57,960
strong belief about Breakaway

687
00:27:01,610 --> 00:26:59,760
civilization is it something you still

688
00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:01,620
believe in or have you altered your

689
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:03,900
thinking on that subject at all that's a

690
00:27:07,490 --> 00:27:05,279
great question

691
00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:07,500
no I still believe that there is

692
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,720
something along these lines maybe what's

693
00:27:15,169 --> 00:27:11,760
altered is

694
00:27:16,850 --> 00:27:15,179
or maybe what's become a little more

695
00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:16,860
uh where I become a little more cautious

696
00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:20,220
is in drawing conclusions as to just how

697
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:23,460
advanced I think it is so what I think

698
00:27:30,529 --> 00:27:25,919
is that yes there is

699
00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:30,539
very uh deeply classified science a lot

700
00:27:34,490 --> 00:27:32,940
of which has to do with the recovery of

701
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:34,500
these

702
00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:38,340
crashed or downed or landed UFOs

703
00:27:42,890 --> 00:27:40,980
and what that means is

704
00:27:45,289 --> 00:27:42,900
uh you know the possession of something

705
00:27:47,090 --> 00:27:45,299
so utterly advanced

706
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:47,100
in the opinion of the the people

707
00:27:52,370 --> 00:27:49,320
controlling the secret is of such

708
00:27:54,110 --> 00:27:52,380
Paramount secrecy that there is just no

709
00:27:56,570 --> 00:27:54,120
way this can be allowed to seep out and

710
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,580
so you have uh essentially a secret

711
00:28:02,269 --> 00:27:58,320
scientific effort going on to understand

712
00:28:03,769 --> 00:28:02,279
this and so a secret science can lead to

713
00:28:06,769 --> 00:28:03,779
secret breakthroughs of understanding

714
00:28:09,169 --> 00:28:06,779
which themselves

715
00:28:11,870 --> 00:28:09,179
um may have to be kept secret unless you

716
00:28:13,970 --> 00:28:11,880
can find a safe way to kind of segue

717
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,980
them into uh into the public so it's

718
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:16,320
very easy to lead to very highly

719
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:17,700
Advanced capabilities within a

720
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:19,260
classified world and that's really the

721
00:28:22,909 --> 00:28:20,640
foundation of what I call a breakaway

722
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,919
civilization so I still think that that

723
00:28:27,169 --> 00:28:24,720
is true the

724
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:27,179
thing that I will be a little more

725
00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:30,480
careful about are unsu relating to some

726
00:28:34,190 --> 00:28:31,860
of the more exotic

727
00:28:35,930 --> 00:28:34,200
capabilities that might exist so when we

728
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:35,940
talk about portals we talk about time

729
00:28:39,409 --> 00:28:37,440
travel we talk about

730
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:39,419
you know zipping across the Galaxy

731
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:42,059
instantly and this type of thing I've

732
00:28:46,669 --> 00:28:43,500
heard people making these types of

733
00:28:48,529 --> 00:28:46,679
claims and I'm very I'm a bit dubious

734
00:28:50,269 --> 00:28:48,539
about them particularly I mean look over

735
00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:50,279
the last five years and beyond that

736
00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:52,380
there are a number of people making some

737
00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:53,900
uh

738
00:28:58,610 --> 00:28:56,340
irresponsible and fraudulent I would say

739
00:29:00,049 --> 00:28:58,620
claims that were related to Breakaway

740
00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:00,059
civilization I think it did a lot of

741
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,720
damage to the concept itself frankly uh

742
00:29:07,549 --> 00:29:05,039
when you have people talking about time

743
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,559
traveling and and this type of thing

744
00:29:12,649 --> 00:29:09,840
fighting aliens on Mars and like I think

745
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,659
the serious damage to our field for a

746
00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:14,880
few years uh fortunately I think we've

747
00:29:18,190 --> 00:29:16,740
kind of gotten over that that little

748
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:18,200
crazy party

749
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:21,840
so I I feel like no it's a legitimate

750
00:29:26,210 --> 00:29:24,480
concept I

751
00:29:27,710 --> 00:29:26,220
I absolutely think that there is

752
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,720
something along these lines

753
00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:30,240
uh the real question is how far does it

754
00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:31,080
go

755
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:35,880
there is something along these lines I

756
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:38,760
will continue to believe that okay

757
00:29:45,289 --> 00:29:42,320
well in terms of Concepts you know in uh

758
00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:45,299
when you and Bryce Sable co-authored

759
00:29:53,149 --> 00:29:48,360
your book a day after disclosure uh

760
00:29:56,690 --> 00:29:53,159
really it's crazy to think of where we

761
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:56,700
were then and where we are now and and

762
00:30:00,889 --> 00:29:58,559
this is one of our this is one of our

763
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:00,899
most popular questions Amy on patreon

764
00:30:05,870 --> 00:30:03,840
and Brandon through Facebook as uh has

765
00:30:08,029 --> 00:30:05,880
your concept or idea of what disclosure

766
00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:08,039
may look like changed since the

767
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,380
publishing of the original book and if

768
00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:11,760
so how

769
00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:14,220
that's a good question well when we

770
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,260
wrote that book so Bryce and I I love

771
00:30:20,269 --> 00:30:19,200
Bryce I respect him uh tremendously but

772
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,279
our attitudes are a little different

773
00:30:23,810 --> 00:30:22,559
they were different then and I suspect

774
00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:23,820
that they're probably a little bit

775
00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:25,860
different today which is fine you know

776
00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:28,740
we all have our perspective so uh among

777
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:30,179
the two of us I would say he was always

778
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:33,360
a bit more of an optimist than I was I

779
00:30:36,049 --> 00:30:34,559
think that's fair to say I think he

780
00:30:37,789 --> 00:30:36,059
would agree with that

781
00:30:39,169 --> 00:30:37,799
uh

782
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,179
that doesn't mean that I was a total

783
00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:40,799
pessimist about disclosure you know we

784
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:41,880
wrote that book

785
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:44,399
in the year 2000

786
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:47,760
2010 yeah 2010 wow

787
00:30:54,049 --> 00:30:52,320
so that's 12 13 years ago just about uh

788
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,059
that was before

789
00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:56,640
the big Tech Revolution against uh

790
00:31:01,549 --> 00:30:59,220
freedom of expression became obvious uh

791
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:01,559
when we believed when it was true that

792
00:31:06,590 --> 00:31:04,260
there was this alternate media as it

793
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:06,600
were that could be uh

794
00:31:11,389 --> 00:31:08,880
kind of a lever against the Legacy Media

795
00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:11,399
at least this is how I saw it so my

796
00:31:15,529 --> 00:31:13,140
reasoning at the time was

797
00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:15,539
we're in an era where Wikileaks was

798
00:31:19,010 --> 00:31:17,100
still going

799
00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:19,020
uh the you know National governments had

800
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:19,980
not really

801
00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:21,240
brought the hammer down against

802
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:23,520
Wikileaks the way they did shortly after

803
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:25,080
that

804
00:31:33,409 --> 00:31:30,539
the flow of information to me seemed

805
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:33,419
like it was going in a One Direction and

806
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:35,520
that at a certain point there would be

807
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,039
an inevitable breakthrough in terms of a

808
00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:40,559
leak and unexpected disclosure and the

809
00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:41,460
like

810
00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:42,840
so there are a couple of things that are

811
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:44,520
different between then and now and and

812
00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:46,799
one I would say miscalculation on my

813
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:48,299
part

814
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,080
so the things that are different are

815
00:31:56,510 --> 00:31:54,480
uh well we've had we've had a definite

816
00:31:58,970 --> 00:31:56,520
digital Revolution since then

817
00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:58,980
uh we've seen you know remember in Star

818
00:32:03,649 --> 00:32:01,559
Wars The Empire Strikes Back well the

819
00:32:06,649 --> 00:32:03,659
Empire has struck back since since that

820
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:06,659
time and has gone a long long way toward

821
00:32:12,049 --> 00:32:09,840
consolidating its control over big Tech

822
00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:12,059
and over populations in general so

823
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:13,980
that's one thing

824
00:32:20,750 --> 00:32:17,760
and uh and so so that took away the

825
00:32:22,490 --> 00:32:20,760
whole leverage that I think was

826
00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:22,500
available on social media like YouTube

827
00:32:27,169 --> 00:32:25,020
for example or Facebook you know my

828
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:27,179
attitude was if something big happens it

829
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,799
will spread like wildfire on Youtube

830
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:30,480
it'll spread like wildfire on Facebook

831
00:32:35,930 --> 00:32:34,320
because they can't control that well so

832
00:32:37,970 --> 00:32:35,940
much for that idea that that absolutely

833
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:37,980
has been and is controlled

834
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:40,399
um social media is is very carefully

835
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:43,140
curated as they love to put that's their

836
00:32:47,510 --> 00:32:45,120
favorite word for that

837
00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:47,520
so social media is no Panacea any longer

838
00:32:52,909 --> 00:32:51,059
and then the thing where I miscalculated

839
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:52,919
and this really became clear since 2017

840
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:57,299
is I I would have to say I believed

841
00:33:02,450 --> 00:32:58,799
that

842
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:02,460
if the public were presented with a

843
00:33:07,549 --> 00:33:04,500
statement by The Establishment to the

844
00:33:09,889 --> 00:33:07,559
effect that UFOs are real

845
00:33:11,690 --> 00:33:09,899
that this would likely trigger some kind

846
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:11,700
of avalanche

847
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,640
of an energized public

848
00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:17,279
that would say hey wait you've been

849
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,220
lying about this for so many years

850
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:22,080
we want to know everything about this

851
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:23,519
and by the way what else have you been

852
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,159
lying about this was definitely how I

853
00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:28,559
thought the public reaction would be and

854
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:29,820
in fact it hasn't turned out to be the

855
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,679
case I was dead wrong on this because

856
00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:34,559
what we've seen in 2017 is that the

857
00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:37,140
National Security apparatus is very very

858
00:33:43,970 --> 00:33:40,860
astute at managing its process of

859
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:43,980
disclosure or managing

860
00:33:49,730 --> 00:33:47,820
any kind of undesirable leaks so I look

861
00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:49,740
at the equation of atip and the Tic Tac

862
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:52,200
UFO as undesirable leaks on their part I

863
00:33:54,889 --> 00:33:53,039
don't think the National Security

864
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:54,899
apparatus wanted that information out

865
00:34:01,370 --> 00:33:58,559
but once it came out they their masters

866
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:01,380
at managing the public perceptions and

867
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:02,640
so what's happened

868
00:34:06,409 --> 00:34:04,260
there's kind of this tacit

869
00:34:09,649 --> 00:34:06,419
acknowledgment that UFOs are real

870
00:34:12,169 --> 00:34:09,659
but they've done it genius level by

871
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:12,179
which they're not stating UFOs are real

872
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:14,580
they're like kind of sitting back and

873
00:34:17,149 --> 00:34:15,960
saying yeah yeah it looks like there's

874
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:17,159
something there

875
00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:19,200
and where's the public on this

876
00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:22,260
where is the public

877
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,419
as Elizondo said in the early days it

878
00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:25,679
sounds nothing I hear nothing but

879
00:34:29,089 --> 00:34:26,940
crickets

880
00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:29,099
and that is that's what it is the public

881
00:34:33,169 --> 00:34:31,260
is is not energized by this the public

882
00:34:34,849 --> 00:34:33,179
doesn't seem to give a damn frankly

883
00:34:37,070 --> 00:34:34,859
they're going about with their lives and

884
00:34:40,909 --> 00:34:37,080
and they don't care because the fact is

885
00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:40,919
that there is no major media

886
00:34:44,089 --> 00:34:42,780
that is taking this narrative and

887
00:34:46,490 --> 00:34:44,099
pushing it and so you know people

888
00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:46,500
unfortunately are very passive they

889
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:48,599
they eat the food that's been pre-chewed

890
00:34:52,669 --> 00:34:50,040
and served to them by the National

891
00:34:54,770 --> 00:34:52,679
Security apparatus and so there's not a

892
00:34:55,970 --> 00:34:54,780
lot of curiosity about it or if there's

893
00:34:58,430 --> 00:34:55,980
not a lot of knowledge and there doesn't

894
00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:58,440
seem to be much of a push so that's

895
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,820
where I think I would say I

896
00:35:03,170 --> 00:35:02,160
miscalculated in

897
00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:03,180
um

898
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:04,920
a day after disclosure it wasn't just me

899
00:35:09,770 --> 00:35:07,680
I mean I think Bryson I think probably

900
00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:09,780
if you had asked any other UFO

901
00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:11,460
researcher back in 2010

902
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,260
if the government were to give an

903
00:35:17,089 --> 00:35:15,359
acknowledgment that UFOs are real I

904
00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:17,099
think we all would have said wow that

905
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:19,020
would be an amazing thing that would be

906
00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:20,640
such a shock and yet they've actually

907
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:23,400
Managed IT exceedingly well

908
00:35:27,970 --> 00:35:27,240
yeah hence arrow and everything moving

909
00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:27,980
forward

910
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:30,180
let me just further answer that question

911
00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:33,180
in terms of where I think we are headed

912
00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:35,820
um you know one phrase that I I used to

913
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:37,560
repeat all the time that I coined was

914
00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:40,140
disclosure is impossible and inevitable

915
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:43,140
I always put it out as a paradox it's

916
00:35:48,349 --> 00:35:45,240
impossible because there's no motivation

917
00:35:50,510 --> 00:35:48,359
for the powers that be to promote it and

918
00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:50,520
that is still absolutely true and I

919
00:35:53,390 --> 00:35:51,540
always said but it's inevitable

920
00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:53,400
nonetheless for the reasons that I kind

921
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:56,760
of outlined a little earlier

922
00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:59,040
uh I don't know if it's inevitable I I'm

923
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:01,260
not so sure it said that

924
00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:03,119
if it's a done deal at all which I used

925
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:04,859
to think it would be

926
00:36:10,490 --> 00:36:07,200
I would say it is possible

927
00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:10,500
but it is also possible that a genuine

928
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:11,700
disclosure

929
00:36:14,990 --> 00:36:13,200
could be withheld from us for a very

930
00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:15,000
long time

931
00:36:20,329 --> 00:36:17,400
I mean so long that it it makes the

932
00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:20,339
subject irrelevant that's possible Right

933
00:36:22,970 --> 00:36:21,540
right

934
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,980
interesting

935
00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:24,839
um well I mean kind of staying I guess

936
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,980
in that same vein uh Congress got

937
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:30,720
involved for this topic for the first

938
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:33,359
time since you know the Gerald Ford days

939
00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:36,480
when we had semi Congressional hearings

940
00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:39,780
on the Suffolk and uh it was

941
00:36:45,050 --> 00:36:43,320
I I you know it was uh depressing it was

942
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:45,060
sobering when those Congressional

943
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:46,920
hearings happened I think a lot of

944
00:36:50,810 --> 00:36:48,660
people expected you know they'd pull out

945
00:36:53,089 --> 00:36:50,820
the the alien and bring it on the

946
00:36:54,410 --> 00:36:53,099
Congress floor and that clearly did not

947
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:54,420
happen

948
00:36:59,390 --> 00:36:57,599
um but yeah yeah well you know before I

949
00:37:01,010 --> 00:36:59,400
actually move on to the question asked

950
00:37:02,450 --> 00:37:01,020
uh what did you make of the

951
00:37:04,970 --> 00:37:02,460
Congressional hearing rich on a personal

952
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:04,980
level did that help hurt the topic the

953
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:06,960
subject did it hurt the government did

954
00:37:11,810 --> 00:37:08,760
it hurt I would say it was almost

955
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,820
exactly what I was expecting to say that

956
00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:13,920
I it oh you're talking about the one

957
00:37:18,829 --> 00:37:15,960
that was uh almost a year ago so from

958
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:18,839
May of 2022 yeah so this is Ronald

959
00:37:24,109 --> 00:37:20,880
Moultrie and Scott Bray

960
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:24,119
uh when they spoke to Congress the open

961
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:26,640
part is what we saw and that was I think

962
00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:29,280
about an hour wasn't that very long

963
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,900
uh

964
00:37:34,849 --> 00:37:33,119
you know obviously neither of those men

965
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:34,859
know much of anything about the UFO

966
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,480
subject it was quite obvious that they

967
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,640
were both out of their depth uh Moultrie

968
00:37:45,050 --> 00:37:41,040
was funny because he sounded almost

969
00:37:48,589 --> 00:37:45,060
exactly like John uh Samford from 1952

970
00:37:51,230 --> 00:37:48,599
at the famous press conference in DC uh

971
00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:51,240
moultrie's saying well yeah there's uh

972
00:37:55,010 --> 00:37:52,920
there's objects out there but we are

973
00:37:58,250 --> 00:37:55,020
confident he said that with enough

974
00:38:00,589 --> 00:37:58,260
information we can identify and mitigate

975
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,599
all of them that was a word that I loved

976
00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:02,640
mitigate and I watched that I'm like

977
00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:04,380
dude you're not mitigating anything here

978
00:38:08,329 --> 00:38:06,540
you haven't mitigated this for 80 years

979
00:38:10,370 --> 00:38:08,339
you're not going to mitigate it now

980
00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:10,380
uh that's just a lot of Brave talk there

981
00:38:14,329 --> 00:38:12,900
but but I suppose what I would say is

982
00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:14,339
that

983
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:18,660
came out of it were some of the

984
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:19,920
questions by representative Mike

985
00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:21,420
Gallagher who did bring up the Davis

986
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,780
Wilson memo I thought hey okay that's a

987
00:38:30,349 --> 00:38:27,119
nice little win got that in there

988
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:30,359
um and uh I think it was oh he asked a

989
00:38:34,910 --> 00:38:32,880
question about the UFOs and nukes which

990
00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:34,920
okay good let's let's bring some of

991
00:38:38,569 --> 00:38:35,940
these things up

992
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:38,579
but really there was I would say little

993
00:38:41,390 --> 00:38:40,140
to nothing of genuine substance that

994
00:38:44,510 --> 00:38:41,400
came out of it

995
00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:44,520
and and very little in terms of a

996
00:38:47,569 --> 00:38:46,440
promise for further information I mean

997
00:38:48,829 --> 00:38:47,579
they're just going through the motions

998
00:38:50,569 --> 00:38:48,839
here

999
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:50,579
so it was

1000
00:38:54,530 --> 00:38:52,560
if there was someone who was actually

1001
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,540
waiting for a kind of disclosure moment

1002
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:56,400
I think they they would have been very

1003
00:39:02,450 --> 00:38:59,280
disappointed obviously and

1004
00:39:04,010 --> 00:39:02,460
uh for me I'm at the George Carlin phase

1005
00:39:06,890 --> 00:39:04,020
of life you know 30 years ago George

1006
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,900
Carlin's in his last stand-up phase and

1007
00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:08,400
he's like look I didn't vote for these

1008
00:39:12,650 --> 00:39:09,900
guys I'm just here to watch the

1009
00:39:15,710 --> 00:39:12,660
show I got a front row seat

1010
00:39:17,329 --> 00:39:15,720
and uh and he's like I'm loving it

1011
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:17,339
I used to listen to that years ago and

1012
00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:19,260
I'm like wow he's funny but he's a

1013
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:20,339
little harsh

1014
00:39:24,109 --> 00:39:23,220
I I look at it now and I think not harsh

1015
00:39:27,290 --> 00:39:24,119
enough

1016
00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:27,300
so how did I get to the point where I'm

1017
00:39:32,569 --> 00:39:29,820
I'm channeling this ghost the shade of

1018
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,579
George Carlin but I do uh I definitely

1019
00:39:37,849 --> 00:39:34,320
see where he's coming from

1020
00:39:41,089 --> 00:39:37,859
so my attitude is I don't expect

1021
00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:41,099
uh I'm just not expecting anything to

1022
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:42,680
come out of these Congressional

1023
00:39:46,970 --> 00:39:45,000
initiatives I'm not saying things are

1024
00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:46,980
impossible and I'm not saying nothing

1025
00:39:53,089 --> 00:39:51,240
will come out but a genuine recognition

1026
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:53,099
disclosure

1027
00:39:56,569 --> 00:39:54,720
look I know that there are some efforts

1028
00:40:00,410 --> 00:39:56,579
behind the scenes toward this

1029
00:40:02,450 --> 00:40:00,420
and I have spoken to some people who

1030
00:40:04,490 --> 00:40:02,460
are have connections with that who are

1031
00:40:05,690 --> 00:40:04,500
like no no we're making this happen this

1032
00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:05,700
is going to happen

1033
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:07,380
so my attitude is good you know if you

1034
00:40:10,670 --> 00:40:09,240
make it happen wonderful I think you

1035
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:10,680
have more confidence in that system than

1036
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:11,520
I do

1037
00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:13,740
but I I can't pretend that I have the

1038
00:40:17,089 --> 00:40:15,720
full answer I'm just all I have is my

1039
00:40:20,030 --> 00:40:17,099
perspective

1040
00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:20,040
and and looking at years of historical

1041
00:40:24,349 --> 00:40:22,680
obfuscation and also you know

1042
00:40:26,690 --> 00:40:24,359
understanding what the stakes are for

1043
00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:26,700
these people that is giving up a genuine

1044
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:28,680
admission on this

1045
00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:29,880
uh

1046
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:32,700
I don't I don't see how they win

1047
00:40:36,589 --> 00:40:34,740
because

1048
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:36,599
there's a lot to be lost the only way

1049
00:40:40,430 --> 00:40:38,040
that I could see them doing it is if

1050
00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:40,440
they are pushed as I said before to the

1051
00:40:44,329 --> 00:40:42,300
wall and there's

1052
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:44,339
something even worse that will happen if

1053
00:40:48,650 --> 00:40:47,280
they don't give up some of the truth a

1054
00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:48,660
sliver of the truth

1055
00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:50,520
which is all that we can ever expect by

1056
00:40:55,010 --> 00:40:52,380
the way in other words you think of

1057
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:55,020
think of UFO information as a mountain

1058
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,720
and the the people who have control over

1059
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,040
the information if they give up

1060
00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:00,720
something if they give up anything

1061
00:41:05,329 --> 00:41:02,700
they're going to give up a sliver of

1062
00:41:07,010 --> 00:41:05,339
that mountain just a sliver and it'll be

1063
00:41:08,750 --> 00:41:07,020
the sliver that puts them in the best

1064
00:41:11,810 --> 00:41:08,760
possible light

1065
00:41:14,329 --> 00:41:11,820
so but but even giving up a sliver is a

1066
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,339
dangerous game because

1067
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:16,560
if you wet the appetite of the public on

1068
00:41:20,329 --> 00:41:18,359
this too much and you give them the

1069
00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:20,339
public the opportunity to ask difficult

1070
00:41:23,569 --> 00:41:21,420
questions

1071
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:23,579
then that's no good either

1072
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:25,680
you know government says Yeah Yeah we

1073
00:41:28,250 --> 00:41:26,760
actually have known about this for a

1074
00:41:30,109 --> 00:41:28,260
little while or this appears to be real

1075
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:30,119
people are going to be like really so

1076
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:31,800
what does it say about Crash retrievals

1077
00:41:35,089 --> 00:41:33,420
is this a question that'll come up at a

1078
00:41:36,349 --> 00:41:35,099
press conference have there been crash

1079
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:36,359
retrievals and is anyone going to

1080
00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:41,089
um maybe maybe that will happen and

1081
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,540
there will be denials and maybe no one

1082
00:41:46,849 --> 00:41:44,400
will believe them but even if that's the

1083
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:46,859
case will anything come out of that

1084
00:41:50,510 --> 00:41:48,780
who believes that we have a functioning

1085
00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:50,520
democratic system here I mean let's get

1086
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:53,640
real does does anyone actually believe

1087
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:56,220
that the the United States or for that

1088
00:41:59,690 --> 00:41:57,599
matter the European system you're in

1089
00:42:02,210 --> 00:41:59,700
Scotland there uh does anyone actually

1090
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:02,220
believe that anywhere

1091
00:42:07,970 --> 00:42:04,800
in any society Western Society or

1092
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:07,980
anywhere that governments at this point

1093
00:42:11,810 --> 00:42:09,660
are amenable to the will of the people

1094
00:42:13,250 --> 00:42:11,820
in my view the last two plus years

1095
00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:13,260
they've just taken the mask off and

1096
00:42:17,329 --> 00:42:15,240
they're like we don't give a crap and

1097
00:42:19,069 --> 00:42:17,339
and what are you going to do about it

1098
00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:19,079
look what Trudeau did to the Canadian

1099
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,940
truckers a little over a year ago

1100
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,800
which I I think was a reprehensible

1101
00:42:26,450 --> 00:42:24,720
crime by the Canadian government against

1102
00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:26,460
their people they don't care

1103
00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:28,740
they don't care

1104
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,720
leadership none of them care

1105
00:42:36,890 --> 00:42:35,280
they're all every one of them are hated

1106
00:42:38,450 --> 00:42:36,900
by the public and they don't care

1107
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:38,460
because they know they don't need to

1108
00:42:41,569 --> 00:42:40,380
care so and it's the same with the

1109
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:41,579
United States

1110
00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:43,920
so we're in a different situation than

1111
00:42:49,010 --> 00:42:45,900
we were a couple of generations ago

1112
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:49,020
where there was at least the pretense uh

1113
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:50,640
public officials that actually were

1114
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:52,140
supposed to care about public opinion

1115
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:54,960
and would answer it that's not the case

1116
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,400
anymore

1117
00:43:00,890 --> 00:42:58,560
hmm yeah

1118
00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:00,900
it's the same everywhere I hate to say

1119
00:43:03,170 --> 00:43:01,740
it

1120
00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:03,180
um well okay

1121
00:43:08,329 --> 00:43:05,700
you mentioned a buzzword in there Rich

1122
00:43:10,849 --> 00:43:08,339
so I'm gonna fast forward to our most

1123
00:43:13,309 --> 00:43:10,859
popular question

1124
00:43:16,849 --> 00:43:13,319
um literally dozens and dozens of people

1125
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:16,859
wanted to uh get your most updated

1126
00:43:20,329 --> 00:43:18,960
thoughts on this you mentioned Wilson

1127
00:43:23,089 --> 00:43:20,339
Davis

1128
00:43:24,530 --> 00:43:23,099
um yes where are you on this I mean this

1129
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,540
is probably one of the most contentious

1130
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:27,119
uh things to come out of ufology in a

1131
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,760
while you know if you believe it uh

1132
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:31,440
people wanna ring your neck if you don't

1133
00:43:33,770 --> 00:43:32,880
believe it people want to ring your neck

1134
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:33,780
too

1135
00:43:39,470 --> 00:43:36,480
um are we any closer to finding out is

1136
00:43:41,690 --> 00:43:39,480
any of this real did it happen I mean it

1137
00:43:44,450 --> 00:43:41,700
happened I I think everyone can sort of

1138
00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:44,460
agree on that the meeting happened but

1139
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:45,960
uh what are your thoughts and

1140
00:43:56,990 --> 00:43:54,410
the summer in the skies podcast is free

1141
00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:57,000
to listen to every week but if you would

1142
00:44:02,210 --> 00:43:59,460
like to help support the show we have a

1143
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:02,220
very active patreon page where you give

1144
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:04,200
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1145
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:06,660
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1146
00:44:12,670 --> 00:44:10,380
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1147
00:44:15,290 --> 00:44:12,680
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1148
00:44:18,829 --> 00:44:15,300
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1149
00:44:21,609 --> 00:44:18,839
continue and grow so to learn more and

1150
00:44:23,260 --> 00:44:21,619
to join visit patreon.com

1151
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:23,270
somewhere Skies

1152
00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:29,930
foreign

1153
00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:33,000
I think I think a few months ago I did a

1154
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:34,380
YouTube

1155
00:44:39,530 --> 00:44:37,260
uh program which I called

1156
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,540
um no more excuses

1157
00:44:43,309 --> 00:44:41,280
that's what it was and it was all about

1158
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:43,319
the Wilson Davis or Davis Wilson notes

1159
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:45,300
and essentially I said there are no more

1160
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,040
excuses

1161
00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:49,680
for people to be wavering on this and to

1162
00:44:55,370 --> 00:44:52,140
to doubt the authenticity of this

1163
00:44:56,809 --> 00:44:55,380
document written by Dr Eric Davis

1164
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,819
um you've had

1165
00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:59,760
many people now have have confirmed its

1166
00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:02,099
authenticity not just me you know I've

1167
00:45:06,109 --> 00:45:03,660
been on the record

1168
00:45:08,690 --> 00:45:06,119
uh since they came out in 2019 I said

1169
00:45:13,849 --> 00:45:08,700
look I was shown

1170
00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:13,859
uh several pages of those notes in 2006

1171
00:45:19,069 --> 00:45:16,920
in fact I went on the public record a

1172
00:45:21,050 --> 00:45:19,079
number of times back then

1173
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:21,060
discussing the one thing I didn't say

1174
00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:24,960
back in 070809 was that I had seen the

1175
00:45:28,609 --> 00:45:27,240
notes and the only reason I didn't say

1176
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:28,619
that it was out of respect to the man

1177
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:30,660
who showed me those notes this is a man

1178
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:31,920
who's

1179
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,020
I'd never given up his name

1180
00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:36,720
and while he's alive I won't but because

1181
00:45:43,550 --> 00:45:39,420
he doesn't want me to but I'll just say

1182
00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:43,560
he is extremely close to the situation

1183
00:45:48,170 --> 00:45:45,780
so he showed me these notes in 06 I

1184
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:48,180
started talking about Thomas Wilson in

1185
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,160
2007.

1186
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:51,839
I talked about Thomas Wilson being

1187
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:53,280
denied access

1188
00:45:58,609 --> 00:45:56,160
to a reverse engineering program in 2007

1189
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:58,619
and 2008 and 2009. how the hell am I

1190
00:46:01,809 --> 00:46:00,240
going to get that information if it

1191
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:01,819
didn't come from those notes

1192
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:04,319
obviously I was shown those notes and in

1193
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:06,000
fact in one interview

1194
00:46:12,349 --> 00:46:10,680
back in 07 with uh the paracast hosted

1195
00:46:15,530 --> 00:46:12,359
by Gene Steinberg

1196
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,540
I was on July 1st of 2007.

1197
00:46:19,370 --> 00:46:17,760
uh on that podcast which can be found on

1198
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:19,380
the online

1199
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:24,000
I actually uh very coyly quoted the the

1200
00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:25,920
notes themselves I didn't I didn't say

1201
00:46:31,069 --> 00:46:28,079
that but I said in contacts with Wilson

1202
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:31,079
I said yeah he uh came across he learned

1203
00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:32,880
that there was technology not made by

1204
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,700
man not by human hands I said it on the

1205
00:46:40,910 --> 00:46:37,680
podcast

1206
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,920
because I had read those words

1207
00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:43,200
in 2006.

1208
00:46:46,849 --> 00:46:45,900
so the notes have existed for all this

1209
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,859
time

1210
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:48,720
and the person who showed me those notes

1211
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,760
as I said was very very very intimately

1212
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:53,040
close to that entire circle this is

1213
00:46:57,050 --> 00:46:54,720
obvious

1214
00:46:59,690 --> 00:46:57,060
that Eric Davis was set on a mission by

1215
00:47:01,370 --> 00:46:59,700
the Bigelow team the Ned's the Ned's

1216
00:47:03,170 --> 00:47:01,380
people essentially

1217
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:03,180
to meet with Thomas Wilson who had just

1218
00:47:08,329 --> 00:47:05,760
gone into retirement in 2003 out of the

1219
00:47:09,170 --> 00:47:08,339
Joint Chiefs of 2002 excuse me those two

1220
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:09,180
yeah

1221
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,920
and um

1222
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:12,960
and met with him and took detailed notes

1223
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:15,119
those those are those are Davis's notes

1224
00:47:19,010 --> 00:47:16,560
that's his style

1225
00:47:20,569 --> 00:47:19,020
and uh who else has confirmed it well

1226
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:20,579
Leslie Kane has confirmed that she'd

1227
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:22,160
known about the notes

1228
00:47:26,210 --> 00:47:24,660
and I can say this now I mean when those

1229
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:26,220
notes came out and I went public about

1230
00:47:29,210 --> 00:47:27,359
this

1231
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:29,220
defending them Leslie wrote to me

1232
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:30,540
privately she said I'm so glad you're

1233
00:47:33,890 --> 00:47:32,400
doing that she said unfortunately I

1234
00:47:35,390 --> 00:47:33,900
can't right now it's a little too

1235
00:47:38,270 --> 00:47:35,400
sensitive for me and I'm like okay well

1236
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,280
great but she she did publicly confirm

1237
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:41,040
them in 2022. as the exact uh Jacques

1238
00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:42,000
valet

1239
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,180
as have I think George Knapp also they

1240
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:46,800
all have they're all these people are

1241
00:47:52,370 --> 00:47:49,260
intimately close to the situation Davis

1242
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:52,380
can't do it he can't and Wilson can't

1243
00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:54,180
obviously not

1244
00:47:58,430 --> 00:47:56,040
I was kind of amazed at people like

1245
00:48:00,170 --> 00:47:58,440
Billy Cox journalist and how you know I

1246
00:48:02,930 --> 00:48:00,180
mean he's done good work but how dense

1247
00:48:05,870 --> 00:48:02,940
can you be because Wilson denies it to

1248
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:05,880
take that denial at face value really is

1249
00:48:11,630 --> 00:48:08,520
that what you call journalism

1250
00:48:13,970 --> 00:48:11,640
you know obviously they can't admit to

1251
00:48:16,490 --> 00:48:13,980
this because it's way too sensitive

1252
00:48:18,890 --> 00:48:16,500
but there is literally no excuse anymore

1253
00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:18,900
for someone to say gee they're I don't

1254
00:48:22,730 --> 00:48:20,280
think they're legit I think it's a hoax

1255
00:48:24,349 --> 00:48:22,740
like it's get real let's

1256
00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:24,359
let's just get real and the information

1257
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,720
in those notes is too explicit and it's

1258
00:48:33,410 --> 00:48:29,760
you know frankly there's a tremendous

1259
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,420
amount of very valuable information

1260
00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:35,520
for researchers

1261
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:37,260
who are interested in trying to

1262
00:48:42,290 --> 00:48:39,960
understand the structure of UFO secrecy

1263
00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:42,300
at least that the pentagon's component

1264
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:43,140
of it

1265
00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:44,400
you know there are probably other

1266
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:45,660
government components you probably got

1267
00:48:50,690 --> 00:48:49,140
the doe and you've got the CIA both of

1268
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:50,700
which I have been told have

1269
00:48:56,210 --> 00:48:54,000
similar black budget sap structures

1270
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:56,220
within those organizations that are

1271
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,280
equally impervious to outside review but

1272
00:49:02,930 --> 00:49:01,440
within the Pentagon we know it's under

1273
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,940
the um

1274
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,040
uh the oustat office the office of the

1275
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,680
under secretary for uh Acquisitions and

1276
00:49:12,829 --> 00:49:09,599
Scientific Technology

1277
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:12,839
and and within that they have a

1278
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:15,359
uh you know other departments that are

1279
00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:18,000
with departments within departments that

1280
00:49:22,190 --> 00:49:20,040
within those you've got these special

1281
00:49:25,130 --> 00:49:22,200
access programs that Thomas Wilson was

1282
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:25,140
able to find on the tips by the way

1283
00:49:30,890 --> 00:49:28,140
given him by Stephen Greer

1284
00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:30,900
in April 1997. it's a crazy story but

1285
00:49:36,109 --> 00:49:33,720
it's I knew all about this uh when it

1286
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,119
happened in fact I talked about when I I

1287
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:37,920
did the one Ambush interview probably in

1288
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:39,900
my life when I called Thomas Wilson

1289
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:45,359
at the end of um 2006 I called Wilson

1290
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,180
and you know he got very upset and hung

1291
00:49:55,609 --> 00:49:50,880
up on hung up the phone on me

1292
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:55,619
um so no this is there is no more excuse

1293
00:49:59,690 --> 00:49:58,319
the document's real and and the thing we

1294
00:50:02,390 --> 00:49:59,700
really need to be talking about is not

1295
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:02,400
is it real it's like let's let's like

1296
00:50:06,589 --> 00:50:03,839
please get past that because it's just

1297
00:50:08,990 --> 00:50:06,599
cringe worthy when people do this but

1298
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:09,000
what we need to do is analyze a document

1299
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:10,800
and understand the implications the

1300
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:12,780
implication of that document is the

1301
00:50:17,210 --> 00:50:15,060
important thing which is that

1302
00:50:19,309 --> 00:50:17,220
you have first of all

1303
00:50:21,290 --> 00:50:19,319
Wilson's being told now you could say

1304
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,300
did the I assume these were Lockheed

1305
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:23,040
guys but let's whoever told him were

1306
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:24,720
they telling him the truth

1307
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:26,720
so the truth you know presumably

1308
00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:28,859
Wilson's sitting down with The

1309
00:50:34,190 --> 00:50:31,140
Gatekeepers of the program who he

1310
00:50:36,349 --> 00:50:34,200
identified as the security manager the

1311
00:50:39,410 --> 00:50:36,359
corporate attorney

1312
00:50:40,910 --> 00:50:39,420
um and the program manager

1313
00:50:43,609 --> 00:50:40,920
and

1314
00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:43,619
you know what he said was that they told

1315
00:50:47,809 --> 00:50:45,839
him we have an intact craft and we we're

1316
00:50:49,250 --> 00:50:47,819
trying to figure it out and and we're

1317
00:50:51,049 --> 00:50:49,260
really kind of outmatched by this thing

1318
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:51,059
we can't really we haven't made much

1319
00:50:54,530 --> 00:50:52,800
progress painfully slow progress that

1320
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,540
type of thing the real question to ask

1321
00:50:58,130 --> 00:50:57,119
is were they telling him the truth that

1322
00:50:59,210 --> 00:50:58,140
is the question

1323
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,220
yeah

1324
00:51:03,470 --> 00:51:01,440
um I don't I have and you know the other

1325
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:03,480
part you can ask is

1326
00:51:08,510 --> 00:51:06,960
pardon me was Wilson telling Davis

1327
00:51:10,370 --> 00:51:08,520
the full truth

1328
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:10,380
now I think that question the answer is

1329
00:51:13,549 --> 00:51:12,000
probably yes

1330
00:51:15,890 --> 00:51:13,559
I I don't think we can assume he told

1331
00:51:17,390 --> 00:51:15,900
him the full truth in fact I'm pretty

1332
00:51:19,849 --> 00:51:17,400
certain he did not tell Davis everything

1333
00:51:21,530 --> 00:51:19,859
but he told Davis a lot and the reason

1334
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:21,540
is in the notes themselves Wilson

1335
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:23,940
checked into Davis's Bona fides Wilson

1336
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:25,680
was very very careful he was very

1337
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:27,839
nervous about talking to anyone but he

1338
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:30,420
trusted Davis because of the Bona fides

1339
00:51:34,370 --> 00:51:31,760
that he'd been given about Eric Davis

1340
00:51:36,349 --> 00:51:34,380
and so I think it's safe to say that

1341
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:36,359
Wilson was truthful for the most part

1342
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:37,800
with Davis he may have held some things

1343
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:40,079
back the real question to ask is whether

1344
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,520
let's say the Lockheed guys were they

1345
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,440
truthful to Thomas Wilson when they gave

1346
00:51:46,730 --> 00:51:45,359
him their briefing and that's a fair

1347
00:51:48,530 --> 00:51:46,740
question to ask and it could be that

1348
00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:48,540
they did were or were not truthful to

1349
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,660
him or they were partly truthful I think

1350
00:51:56,510 --> 00:51:53,280
that they were truthful in so far as

1351
00:51:58,490 --> 00:51:56,520
there was an at UFO program and I

1352
00:52:01,370 --> 00:51:58,500
believe this because that is the entire

1353
00:52:03,950 --> 00:52:01,380
reason Wilson looked for them he found

1354
00:52:06,609 --> 00:52:03,960
them he was working off of a lead that

1355
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:06,619
Greer had given him specifically about

1356
00:52:13,010 --> 00:52:09,839
E.T reverse engineering uh Tech that was

1357
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,020
being worked at privately away from the

1358
00:52:18,349 --> 00:52:15,839
auspices of U.S pentagon control

1359
00:52:20,329 --> 00:52:18,359
and so Wilson had this information he

1360
00:52:23,329 --> 00:52:20,339
found not one but four actually such

1361
00:52:25,069 --> 00:52:23,339
programs and only met with the managers

1362
00:52:26,809 --> 00:52:25,079
of this one

1363
00:52:29,930 --> 00:52:26,819
who then

1364
00:52:31,790 --> 00:52:29,940
said you know yeah this is E.T uh Wilson

1365
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:31,800
was funny when he's talking to Davis in

1366
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,440
those notes because he's giving this

1367
00:52:38,809 --> 00:52:36,480
pretense of asking them well is this

1368
00:52:41,329 --> 00:52:38,819
Russian is this some adversary I'm

1369
00:52:42,650 --> 00:52:41,339
thinking when I read these notes

1370
00:52:43,849 --> 00:52:42,660
I don't think you believe that for an

1371
00:52:45,710 --> 00:52:43,859
instant Wilson

1372
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:45,720
but I think he was just saying that to

1373
00:52:50,210 --> 00:52:48,180
follow the old cya rule you got to cover

1374
00:52:51,650 --> 00:52:50,220
your you know line up your ducks and be

1375
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,660
careful and I think

1376
00:52:57,170 --> 00:52:53,700
I think that was the only reason I think

1377
00:52:59,690 --> 00:52:57,180
uh he knew full well what this was about

1378
00:53:00,829 --> 00:52:59,700
and to that extent I think that they

1379
00:53:02,809 --> 00:53:00,839
told him the truth that there was a

1380
00:53:04,609 --> 00:53:02,819
program uh they did show him what was

1381
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:04,619
called the big OT list that's simply the

1382
00:53:08,210 --> 00:53:06,000
list of the people who are in the

1383
00:53:10,730 --> 00:53:08,220
program Wilson said it was between four

1384
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,740
and 800 names

1385
00:53:15,410 --> 00:53:12,720
and that they were almost all corporate

1386
00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:15,420
private almost only a small handful of

1387
00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:17,819
DOD Personnel were part of this was all

1388
00:53:22,130 --> 00:53:20,880
private contractor uh I see no reason to

1389
00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:22,140
doubt that at all

1390
00:53:26,990 --> 00:53:25,260
and uh the only thing you can ask that

1391
00:53:29,630 --> 00:53:27,000
they might doubt that you might doubt is

1392
00:53:31,970 --> 00:53:29,640
the question of painfully slow progress

1393
00:53:34,849 --> 00:53:31,980
that is the question and I don't know

1394
00:53:36,109 --> 00:53:34,859
the answer to that it could be that they

1395
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:36,119
were telling him the truth it could be

1396
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:38,160
that they were just blowing smoke up his

1397
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,599
behind because they wanted to get him

1398
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,280
off their back

1399
00:53:45,710 --> 00:53:43,680
who really who really knows I think the

1400
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:45,720
attitude would be we can assume they

1401
00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:47,520
told him as much as they felt they had

1402
00:53:50,569 --> 00:53:49,140
to and they did have to tell him

1403
00:53:53,150 --> 00:53:50,579
something this is the other thing we

1404
00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:53,160
have to realize Wilson found them and

1405
00:53:58,849 --> 00:53:55,740
really pissed them off and what we

1406
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,859
learned in those notes is that that

1407
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:00,720
group had nearly been outed a few years

1408
00:54:05,930 --> 00:54:03,900
earlier by a pentagon audit that found

1409
00:54:08,510 --> 00:54:05,940
them and what they said to Wilson was

1410
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,520
yeah we were nearly outed and we had to

1411
00:54:14,089 --> 00:54:11,040
bring that auditor into the security

1412
00:54:15,770 --> 00:54:14,099
to to shut him up that was the only

1413
00:54:17,150 --> 00:54:15,780
solution we had

1414
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:17,160
so

1415
00:54:21,950 --> 00:54:18,480
you know would you have a guy like

1416
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:21,960
Wilson who's blustering in there trying

1417
00:54:25,130 --> 00:54:23,280
to throw his weight around and saying

1418
00:54:28,609 --> 00:54:25,140
it's your mistake that you did not have

1419
00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:28,619
me in his oversight over your group

1420
00:54:32,690 --> 00:54:30,180
their attitude had to be let's just

1421
00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:32,700
think logically here their attitude was

1422
00:54:36,829 --> 00:54:34,500
all right we don't have to let him in

1423
00:54:39,290 --> 00:54:36,839
but we do have to deal with him he is

1424
00:54:41,809 --> 00:54:39,300
vice uh chair of the Joint Chiefs of

1425
00:54:43,490 --> 00:54:41,819
Staff of intelligence he's not a nobody

1426
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:43,500
that we can just kick around like a

1427
00:54:47,569 --> 00:54:45,180
little puppy dog we've gotta we have to

1428
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:47,579
respect him enough and deal with him so

1429
00:54:52,010 --> 00:54:50,280
the answer I think was exactly the right

1430
00:54:54,049 --> 00:54:52,020
one from their point of view they gave

1431
00:54:57,049 --> 00:54:54,059
him a little bit of information

1432
00:54:59,630 --> 00:54:57,059
and basically said now go away

1433
00:55:02,210 --> 00:54:59,640
and and Wilson said this is not right

1434
00:55:04,010 --> 00:55:02,220
you should I need to be in here they I'm

1435
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:04,020
going to talk to my superiors and and

1436
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,460
their answer was they'll go ahead if you

1437
00:55:08,450 --> 00:55:06,960
want to talk to your boss they clearly

1438
00:55:11,329 --> 00:55:08,460
were not frightened

1439
00:55:12,589 --> 00:55:11,339
Wilson goes back to DC does complain and

1440
00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:12,599
what happens he's threatened with his

1441
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:14,460
career

1442
00:55:20,510 --> 00:55:17,760
so I think that's what happened

1443
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,520
these are important implications you

1444
00:55:24,890 --> 00:55:22,319
know let's just stop and think we are so

1445
00:55:27,650 --> 00:55:24,900
used to the creeping fascism essentially

1446
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:27,660
that has just spread over the Western

1447
00:55:32,089 --> 00:55:29,760
world it's like we've given up on the

1448
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:32,099
idea of expecting our government to be

1449
00:55:36,349 --> 00:55:34,319
responsive to us it's like yeah we know

1450
00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:36,359
they're corrupt well you know what maybe

1451
00:55:40,609 --> 00:55:38,460
we shouldn't be so complacent

1452
00:55:42,650 --> 00:55:40,619
this is a very important thing

1453
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:42,660
I don't agree with Stephen Greer and

1454
00:55:46,790 --> 00:55:43,920
everything let me just say that but I

1455
00:55:49,309 --> 00:55:46,800
agree with him 100 on his attitude back

1456
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,319
then which was that this

1457
00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:52,319
must not be a program that is dominated

1458
00:55:56,690 --> 00:55:54,660
by private contractors who do not have

1459
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:56,700
sufficient government oversight who get

1460
00:55:59,470 --> 00:55:58,740
what they want because when the proper

1461
00:56:02,089 --> 00:55:59,480
government

1462
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:02,099
Liaisons retire they get brought into

1463
00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:04,079
the program and they make a lot of money

1464
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:06,180
as Gatekeepers themselves which is how

1465
00:56:08,930 --> 00:56:07,680
the whole system works it's utterly

1466
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:08,940
corrupt

1467
00:56:13,970 --> 00:56:11,520
and that's not a good system and Greer

1468
00:56:15,290 --> 00:56:13,980
was right for critiquing it back then he

1469
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:15,300
was right to bring this to Wilson's

1470
00:56:19,790 --> 00:56:18,000
attention back then and

1471
00:56:21,470 --> 00:56:19,800
you know but it's just like we're in a

1472
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:21,480
world where

1473
00:56:25,790 --> 00:56:24,000
uh people are they willfully incapable

1474
00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:25,800
of looking at the implications here some

1475
00:56:29,390 --> 00:56:28,200
of them are and some just I just don't

1476
00:56:30,410 --> 00:56:29,400
think they pay attention enough to

1477
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:30,420
understand

1478
00:56:34,069 --> 00:56:32,819
the stakes that are involved in when you

1479
00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:34,079
look at everything involved in the

1480
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,380
Wilson Davis notes we are talking as I

1481
00:56:42,290 --> 00:56:39,359
stand by what I called it a few years

1482
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:42,300
ago the UFO leak of the century which it

1483
00:56:46,430 --> 00:56:44,460
remains to the state is the UFO League

1484
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:46,440
of the century

1485
00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:50,160
yeah unfolding story we need to find

1486
00:56:54,770 --> 00:56:52,380
at least one of those four to five

1487
00:56:56,569 --> 00:56:54,780
hundred people like you mentioned who

1488
00:56:58,670 --> 00:56:56,579
may have worked in this program that

1489
00:57:00,170 --> 00:56:58,680
like you said leaks are the only and

1490
00:57:01,549 --> 00:57:00,180
they're a natural process of any

1491
00:57:03,730 --> 00:57:01,559
government

1492
00:57:05,870 --> 00:57:03,740
um in terms of like how we get any

1493
00:57:07,549 --> 00:57:05,880
transparency seems to be when we're

1494
00:57:08,750 --> 00:57:07,559
they're backed into a corner and leaks

1495
00:57:13,970 --> 00:57:08,760
happen

1496
00:57:16,010 --> 00:57:13,980
personally hope it's on a crash

1497
00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:16,020
retrieval program you know with all the

1498
00:57:20,450 --> 00:57:18,540
research I've done the past 20 something

1499
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:20,460
years of my life

1500
00:57:27,049 --> 00:57:24,480
um that for me would be it not of blurry

1501
00:57:29,630 --> 00:57:27,059
video from the Navy

1502
00:57:31,809 --> 00:57:29,640
um you know not even any photo or video

1503
00:57:34,370 --> 00:57:31,819
it's the

1504
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:34,380
admittance of some sort of program and

1505
00:57:39,650 --> 00:57:37,200
that we actually have a craft of Unknown

1506
00:57:42,770 --> 00:57:39,660
Origin in our possession in any country

1507
00:57:44,510 --> 00:57:42,780
not just in the United States too so if

1508
00:57:46,250 --> 00:57:44,520
this is it if this truly is the leak of

1509
00:57:48,349 --> 00:57:46,260
the century it would change everything

1510
00:57:50,270 --> 00:57:48,359
it honestly would and I don't know where

1511
00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:50,280
I stayed down the Wilson Davis thing uh

1512
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,260
to be up front but hearing you talk

1513
00:57:56,750 --> 00:57:54,720
about the implication is enough to be

1514
00:57:59,150 --> 00:57:56,760
like we need to keep looking at this

1515
00:58:00,589 --> 00:57:59,160
well let me just say this so back in 06

1516
00:58:01,849 --> 00:58:00,599
When I Was preparing to phone Thomas

1517
00:58:04,670 --> 00:58:01,859
Wilson

1518
00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:04,680
I was in touch with the man who showed

1519
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:07,260
me the the notes to begin with

1520
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:08,400
famous

1521
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:10,260
he's a great guy

1522
00:58:15,530 --> 00:58:12,000
I like him

1523
00:58:19,790 --> 00:58:15,540
uh I was writing to him and I said well

1524
00:58:22,010 --> 00:58:19,800
I am going to contact Wilson about this

1525
00:58:24,109 --> 00:58:22,020
and

1526
00:58:28,250 --> 00:58:24,119
his attitude was well good luck with

1527
00:58:31,010 --> 00:58:28,260
that and after after I called Wilson

1528
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:31,020
uh I wrote back and I said yeah Wilson

1529
00:58:35,210 --> 00:58:33,359
just denied everything and this guy said

1530
00:58:38,030 --> 00:58:35,220
what do you expect

1531
00:58:40,190 --> 00:58:38,040
everything is on the line with him

1532
00:58:41,630 --> 00:58:40,200
which I knew as well like obviously I

1533
00:58:43,370 --> 00:58:41,640
knew all of this going into it like if

1534
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,380
Wilson were to give an acknowledgment to

1535
00:58:47,390 --> 00:58:45,119
me on the phone

1536
00:58:50,030 --> 00:58:47,400
he knew that I would publicize that and

1537
00:58:52,190 --> 00:58:50,040
he it's like you know the a little house

1538
00:58:53,870 --> 00:58:52,200
of uh cards or a little house of

1539
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:53,880
toothpicks coming crashing down all at

1540
00:59:00,650 --> 00:58:57,839
once it would be a huge admission

1541
00:59:06,829 --> 00:59:00,660
coming from a very important person back

1542
00:59:08,690 --> 00:59:06,839
in 607 of the existence of a UFO program

1543
00:59:10,010 --> 00:59:08,700
I mean you just remember where we were

1544
00:59:11,690 --> 00:59:10,020
back then

1545
00:59:13,069 --> 00:59:11,700
there was no admission from the

1546
00:59:14,210 --> 00:59:13,079
government about anything like this

1547
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,220
whatsoever

1548
00:59:18,589 --> 00:59:16,799
yeah and uh no I mean it would it would

1549
00:59:21,650 --> 00:59:18,599
blow all of his security clearances for

1550
00:59:23,089 --> 00:59:21,660
the rest of all time first of all right

1551
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:23,099
and uh

1552
00:59:28,370 --> 00:59:26,400
and it would also be a real explosive

1553
00:59:30,289 --> 00:59:28,380
danger to UFO secrecy in general and

1554
00:59:32,270 --> 00:59:30,299
there would be no way that he could but

1555
00:59:33,470 --> 00:59:32,280
I figured look

1556
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:33,480
uh

1557
00:59:37,370 --> 00:59:35,520
I learned Wilson's name

1558
00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:37,380
I knew all about this

1559
00:59:41,390 --> 00:59:38,940
and I thought I'm just going to give a

1560
00:59:43,730 --> 00:59:41,400
guy a phone call and see what happens

1561
00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:43,740
and and you know so I mean I guess what

1562
00:59:47,630 --> 00:59:45,480
I'm saying is it was very clearly

1563
00:59:49,010 --> 00:59:47,640
understood between myself and the

1564
00:59:51,049 --> 00:59:49,020
individual who had shown me the notes to

1565
00:59:53,690 --> 00:59:51,059
begin with what the implications were

1566
00:59:55,309 --> 00:59:53,700
this is heavy duty stuff

1567
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,319
and no it's not an official government

1568
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:57,839
document but it doesn't matter

1569
01:00:02,210 --> 00:59:59,880
you're talking about a senior government

1570
01:00:05,630 --> 01:00:02,220
official senior government defense

1571
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:05,640
official acknowledging the reality of

1572
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:08,400
this phenomenon and how he got shut out

1573
01:00:12,170 --> 01:00:10,079
of it

1574
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:12,180
by essentially

1575
01:00:16,430 --> 01:00:14,400
a corporation

1576
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:16,440
how are the implications of that not

1577
01:00:20,990 --> 01:00:19,200
profound so it's been very obvious all

1578
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:21,000
this time that this is a very serious

1579
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,319
matter

1580
01:00:26,270 --> 01:00:24,960
and I I really I will just the last

1581
01:00:28,250 --> 01:00:26,280
thing I'll say here is I think those

1582
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,260
individuals who went on the record to

1583
01:00:32,089 --> 01:00:30,000
try to throw cold water on this to try

1584
01:00:35,210 --> 01:00:32,099
to debunk it and like I think did a real

1585
01:00:37,370 --> 01:00:35,220
disservice a true disservice to ufology

1586
01:00:39,049 --> 01:00:37,380
they uh it was the biggest

1587
01:00:41,390 --> 01:00:39,059
disappointment in me to me

1588
01:00:42,289 --> 01:00:41,400
professionally to see some colleagues of

1589
01:00:45,530 --> 01:00:42,299
mine

1590
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:45,540
go out of their way seems to

1591
01:00:51,650 --> 01:00:48,780
debunk this critically important leak

1592
01:00:53,630 --> 01:00:51,660
and really hinder our ability as a

1593
01:00:55,549 --> 01:00:53,640
community to move forward with this

1594
01:01:00,650 --> 01:00:55,559
to

1595
01:01:02,450 --> 01:01:00,660
broader conversation publicly and and it

1596
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:02,460
didn't happen because a number of key

1597
01:01:07,789 --> 01:01:03,440
people

1598
01:01:10,730 --> 01:01:07,799
very prominently and really I think um

1599
01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:10,740
with some of them with Mal intent went

1600
01:01:15,950 --> 01:01:13,859
out of their way to debunk this publicly

1601
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:15,960
it was a real a real Misfortune for

1602
01:01:24,770 --> 01:01:22,190
yeah well hey if it's of any consolation

1603
01:01:26,990 --> 01:01:24,780
uh the book's still open for me and I

1604
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,000
closed it I was one of those people rich

1605
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:29,760
I never spoke publicly or privately to

1606
01:01:33,890 --> 01:01:32,400
you about it but I kind of was like uh I

1607
01:01:35,150 --> 01:01:33,900
don't know but the more I hear you talk

1608
01:01:38,530 --> 01:01:35,160
about it

1609
01:01:42,589 --> 01:01:38,540
um the more it sounds like this is a

1610
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:42,599
authentic occurrence and this was an

1611
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:46,319
actual program and he is

1612
01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:50,160
100 genuine in what he was told like you

1613
01:01:55,730 --> 01:01:51,839
said the big question is

1614
01:01:58,730 --> 01:01:55,740
who told him this and was that true um

1615
01:02:01,690 --> 01:01:58,740
there's every reason to wonder about the

1616
01:02:04,670 --> 01:02:01,700
truth of what Wilson was told yeah

1617
01:02:07,609 --> 01:02:04,680
to wonder but but you have to even if we

1618
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:07,619
go down that road we have to ask okay

1619
01:02:13,250 --> 01:02:10,799
is 100 of what they told him false is 50

1620
01:02:14,510 --> 01:02:13,260
of what they told him false is zero

1621
01:02:16,309 --> 01:02:14,520
percent of what they told him false or

1622
01:02:18,530 --> 01:02:16,319
some other number in there we have to

1623
01:02:20,329 --> 01:02:18,540
ask that I think 100 is highly

1624
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:20,339
unrealistic I think even 50 is

1625
01:02:24,530 --> 01:02:21,839
unrealistic

1626
01:02:25,789 --> 01:02:24,540
frankly to tell someone who is

1627
01:02:27,710 --> 01:02:25,799
essentially running intelligence for The

1628
01:02:29,870 --> 01:02:27,720
Joint Chiefs like you're gonna really

1629
01:02:32,270 --> 01:02:29,880
lie that much to this guy you're really

1630
01:02:34,910 --> 01:02:32,280
gonna make up a story and and give him a

1631
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:34,920
big BS tell really even if you're a

1632
01:02:40,730 --> 01:02:37,760
contractor with highest level security

1633
01:02:41,450 --> 01:02:40,740
you're gonna you're just gonna lie flat

1634
01:02:43,609 --> 01:02:41,460
out

1635
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:43,619
you got you got cojones that big you're

1636
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:46,319
gonna lie flat out to this guy who does

1637
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:48,480
have some power

1638
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:50,640
no I think what you will do is you will

1639
01:02:54,710 --> 01:02:53,280
tell him what as much as you need to

1640
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,720
tell him

1641
01:02:59,930 --> 01:02:56,640
you might hedge a little bit here and

1642
01:03:02,630 --> 01:02:59,940
there that's possible but to assume that

1643
01:03:04,490 --> 01:03:02,640
they lied to him I think is also not

1644
01:03:09,049 --> 01:03:04,500
realistic

1645
01:03:13,430 --> 01:03:09,059
it and I can definitely tell you that

1646
01:03:16,970 --> 01:03:13,440
Eric Davis uh wrote those notes

1647
01:03:19,849 --> 01:03:16,980
everyone close to Davis knows this and

1648
01:03:21,650 --> 01:03:19,859
has privately said so by the way okay

1649
01:03:23,150 --> 01:03:21,660
they may not all go on the record but

1650
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:23,160
they all know this

1651
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:25,200
so Davis wrote the notes

1652
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:28,640
and and people who know Davis no he is

1653
01:03:32,990 --> 01:03:30,900
fanatically like I've heard people say

1654
01:03:34,130 --> 01:03:33,000
he's incapable of lying well I don't

1655
01:03:36,530 --> 01:03:34,140
know if that's actually true is anyone

1656
01:03:40,250 --> 01:03:36,540
truly incapable but we get the idea

1657
01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,260
Davis is scrupulously openly honest

1658
01:03:44,930 --> 01:03:42,720
about and you've listened to the guy

1659
01:03:47,210 --> 01:03:44,940
you know he he essentially said this as

1660
01:03:48,410 --> 01:03:47,220
much there was a uh now a censored

1661
01:03:49,730 --> 01:03:48,420
interview that he did with the Stephen

1662
01:03:51,890 --> 01:03:49,740
Green Street of the basement office

1663
01:03:53,410 --> 01:03:51,900
where Green Street asked him flat out

1664
01:03:57,890 --> 01:03:53,420
and Davis

1665
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:57,900
talked about those notices uh from Edgar

1666
01:04:02,030 --> 01:04:00,000
Mitchell's estate which they were they

1667
01:04:03,770 --> 01:04:02,040
were from Ed Mitchell's estate and and

1668
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:03,780
he and

1669
01:04:08,589 --> 01:04:06,000
he never denied it he

1670
01:04:11,390 --> 01:04:08,599
he spoke of them as totally real

1671
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:11,400
and they all know it's real but they

1672
01:04:16,670 --> 01:04:13,680
these people are all afraid of losing

1673
01:04:18,650 --> 01:04:16,680
security clearances that's number one

1674
01:04:19,970 --> 01:04:18,660
this isn't a classified document but it

1675
01:04:22,370 --> 01:04:19,980
does not matter

1676
01:04:26,089 --> 01:04:22,380
it's a document that deals with very

1677
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,099
classified uh goings-on within the

1678
01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:28,079
National Security structure and all of

1679
01:04:33,289 --> 01:04:29,760
those people whether you talk about

1680
01:04:35,089 --> 01:04:33,299
Davis or putoff or kid green or Colm

1681
01:04:35,690 --> 01:04:35,099
Kelleher or

1682
01:04:37,730 --> 01:04:35,700
um

1683
01:04:40,430 --> 01:04:37,740
any of the other people Associated you

1684
01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:40,440
know with that crowd they've all had

1685
01:04:43,130 --> 01:04:42,059
long-standing security clearances and

1686
01:04:47,150 --> 01:04:43,140
they

1687
01:04:49,069 --> 01:04:47,160
by

1688
01:04:51,170 --> 01:04:49,079
having loose lips on this matter and

1689
01:04:53,030 --> 01:04:51,180
saying oh yeah it's real

1690
01:04:55,789 --> 01:04:53,040
you know they've got the Fig Leaf still

1691
01:04:58,309 --> 01:04:55,799
covering them just enough where they can

1692
01:04:59,630 --> 01:04:58,319
say no I didn't say anything

1693
01:05:01,150 --> 01:04:59,640
and that's that's where they're leaving

1694
01:05:03,470 --> 01:05:01,160
it because they they're all about

1695
01:05:05,030 --> 01:05:03,480
preserving their access because all of

1696
01:05:07,549 --> 01:05:05,040
those people

1697
01:05:09,530 --> 01:05:07,559
are on a quest the quest is to get to

1698
01:05:12,289 --> 01:05:09,540
the center of the labyrinth all of them

1699
01:05:16,010 --> 01:05:12,299
none of them are at the exact center

1700
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:16,020
not maybe Davis I don't know but I doubt

1701
01:05:20,569 --> 01:05:18,000
it I don't think they're where they want

1702
01:05:23,030 --> 01:05:20,579
to be they all want more information and

1703
01:05:25,730 --> 01:05:23,040
back 20 years ago I know this for a fact

1704
01:05:27,530 --> 01:05:25,740
all of those people wanted to get more

1705
01:05:29,809 --> 01:05:27,540
information than what they had

1706
01:05:31,789 --> 01:05:29,819
and so when Wilson finally retired

1707
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:31,799
because they knew about this right from

1708
01:05:36,650 --> 01:05:34,079
the beginning in 97 Mitchell was part of

1709
01:05:39,410 --> 01:05:36,660
the Greer team to meet with Wilson

1710
01:05:40,910 --> 01:05:39,420
Edgar Mitchell Mitchell was part of the

1711
01:05:43,370 --> 01:05:40,920
whole nibs crowd he was friends with

1712
01:05:46,190 --> 01:05:43,380
Davis and Putt off in green and Bigelow

1713
01:05:48,650 --> 01:05:46,200
and comb Kelleher and John Alexander

1714
01:05:50,030 --> 01:05:48,660
like all these people worked together on

1715
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:50,040
the National Institute of Discovery

1716
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:53,099
Science so Mitchell learned about Wilson

1717
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,680
being shut out of his meeting with uh

1718
01:06:00,170 --> 01:05:58,319
with the contractors through uh Navy

1719
01:06:02,329 --> 01:06:00,180
Commander

1720
01:06:05,569 --> 01:06:02,339
um will Miller

1721
01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:05,579
so he Willard Miller he was with them

1722
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:07,260
he was the one who found from Wilson

1723
01:06:14,089 --> 01:06:10,559
that Wilson got locked out in June of 97

1724
01:06:16,430 --> 01:06:14,099
three months later and he tells Greer

1725
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:16,440
and he tells Mitchell because they were

1726
01:06:21,890 --> 01:06:18,000
all together

1727
01:06:24,770 --> 01:06:21,900
Greer goes on all the subsequent years

1728
01:06:28,370 --> 01:06:24,780
Greer openly talked about this

1729
01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:28,380
in his book hidden truth forbidden

1730
01:06:33,829 --> 01:06:31,920
knowledge in 2006 he mentioned the

1731
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:33,839
meeting he mentioned Wilson

1732
01:06:39,349 --> 01:06:38,400
talked about it uh and Mitchell also

1733
01:06:41,569 --> 01:06:39,359
um

1734
01:06:43,609 --> 01:06:41,579
learned about it and he told his entire

1735
01:06:45,710 --> 01:06:43,619
crew at Ned's

1736
01:06:47,390 --> 01:06:45,720
one of those people

1737
01:06:51,230 --> 01:06:47,400
said to me oh yeah I've known about that

1738
01:06:55,069 --> 01:06:53,569
all right they've all known all right so

1739
01:06:58,430 --> 01:06:55,079
they're they're all interested in

1740
01:07:01,549 --> 01:06:58,440
getting to the center of the secret

1741
01:07:03,710 --> 01:07:01,559
they coveted that and it's possible in

1742
01:07:05,809 --> 01:07:03,720
the interim years that some of them may

1743
01:07:07,130 --> 01:07:05,819
have gotten there it's possible but in

1744
01:07:09,650 --> 01:07:07,140
2002

1745
01:07:11,329 --> 01:07:09,660
when they sent Davis on his mission and

1746
01:07:14,270 --> 01:07:11,339
Davis basically hit a home run interview

1747
01:07:16,370 --> 01:07:14,280
with that uh when they sent him off they

1748
01:07:18,410 --> 01:07:16,380
that was their goal they wanted

1749
01:07:20,210 --> 01:07:18,420
information they wanted confirmation

1750
01:07:22,010 --> 01:07:20,220
from Wilson

1751
01:07:23,390 --> 01:07:22,020
and they got it

1752
01:07:24,470 --> 01:07:23,400
and it was only supposed to be for

1753
01:07:26,569 --> 01:07:24,480
themselves

1754
01:07:28,910 --> 01:07:26,579
this wasn't for the rest of the world we

1755
01:07:30,109 --> 01:07:28,920
weren't interested in publicizing this

1756
01:07:32,210 --> 01:07:30,119
anywhere

1757
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:32,220
so that's the um that's the meeting

1758
01:07:39,130 --> 01:07:34,079
that's how it worked that's why it

1759
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:43,970
yeah I I'm I'm I'm back in yeah pulled

1760
01:07:49,309 --> 01:07:46,160
me back in I love it um

1761
01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:49,319
and they pull me back in

1762
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:51,660
every damn time Rich

1763
01:07:55,490 --> 01:07:53,760
um last two questions for you before we

1764
01:07:57,589 --> 01:07:55,500
move over to patreon if that's all right

1765
01:08:00,230 --> 01:07:57,599
with you okay cool you've been gracious

1766
01:08:02,930 --> 01:08:00,240
with your time um this isn't

1767
01:08:06,170 --> 01:08:02,940
thank you uh the academic question

1768
01:08:08,210 --> 01:08:06,180
actually Eamon through email asks I'm an

1769
01:08:10,670 --> 01:08:08,220
academic and I'm considering formulating

1770
01:08:13,609 --> 01:08:10,680
a degree level course on the phenomenon

1771
01:08:16,010 --> 01:08:13,619
what areas would Rich want to include in

1772
01:08:18,050 --> 01:08:16,020
the modules that would make up such a

1773
01:08:20,329 --> 01:08:18,060
course I mean we are hearing more and

1774
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,339
more these days of universities taking

1775
01:08:24,490 --> 01:08:22,560
this topic seriously whether from a

1776
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:24,500
historical aspect or

1777
01:08:28,970 --> 01:08:27,120
sociological everything but yeah what

1778
01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:28,980
would you do if you had that I actually

1779
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:30,960
already did this I wrote a book called

1780
01:08:35,930 --> 01:08:33,600
UFOs for the 21st century mine that is

1781
01:08:37,789 --> 01:08:35,940
completely I I'm serious this is

1782
01:08:40,370 --> 01:08:37,799
explicitly the answer to that

1783
01:08:43,849 --> 01:08:40,380
individual's question uh I designed this

1784
01:08:46,430 --> 01:08:43,859
actually originally I was asked by what

1785
01:08:48,590 --> 01:08:46,440
was then an online university of sorts

1786
01:08:50,090 --> 01:08:48,600
what do they call themselves

1787
01:08:51,470 --> 01:08:50,100
the international metaphysical

1788
01:08:52,669 --> 01:08:51,480
University I don't even know if they're

1789
01:08:53,630 --> 01:08:52,679
around

1790
01:08:56,390 --> 01:08:53,640
um

1791
01:08:58,010 --> 01:08:56,400
back uh in I forget what year 2011 or

1792
01:09:00,410 --> 01:08:58,020
thereabouts they said hey we would like

1793
01:09:04,910 --> 01:09:00,420
for you to teach a course

1794
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:04,920
on UFOs like a UFOs 101 type thing

1795
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,719
they had originally asked Stanton

1796
01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:08,400
Friedman but I guess Stan didn't want to

1797
01:09:13,789 --> 01:09:11,400
do it and they asked me and I thought ah

1798
01:09:14,809 --> 01:09:13,799
I'll design something and I and I did I

1799
01:09:17,209 --> 01:09:14,819
wrote

1800
01:09:19,390 --> 01:09:17,219
what really became UFOs for the 21st

1801
01:09:21,349 --> 01:09:19,400
century mine and what I looked at were

1802
01:09:24,229 --> 01:09:21,359
uh I mean

1803
01:09:26,329 --> 01:09:24,239
I will just say you know I looked at the

1804
01:09:27,650 --> 01:09:26,339
first chapters what are UFOs so I asked

1805
01:09:29,450 --> 01:09:27,660
a series of philosophical questions

1806
01:09:32,090 --> 01:09:29,460
scientific questions how do we

1807
01:09:34,610 --> 01:09:32,100
understand what even a UFO is

1808
01:09:37,130 --> 01:09:34,620
um how Are UFOs easily misidentified and

1809
01:09:40,370 --> 01:09:37,140
so on and on uh and then I talk about

1810
01:09:44,209 --> 01:09:40,380
the in that chapter the implications of

1811
01:09:45,890 --> 01:09:44,219
what UFOs might mean to society uh I

1812
01:09:48,110 --> 01:09:45,900
have a chapter talking about theories of

1813
01:09:50,030 --> 01:09:48,120
ancient visitation you know the whole

1814
01:09:52,490 --> 01:09:50,040
Ancient Aliens phenomenon and I try to

1815
01:09:53,809 --> 01:09:52,500
dip my toe into that and get into it and

1816
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:53,819
then there are several chapters that

1817
01:09:59,510 --> 01:09:57,600
deal with a I think a proper concise uh

1818
01:10:02,450 --> 01:09:59,520
analysis of the history of the UFO

1819
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:02,460
phenomenon from early modern times to

1820
01:10:06,290 --> 01:10:04,800
the present uh I get into the political

1821
01:10:07,970 --> 01:10:06,300
implications which are very important

1822
01:10:10,250 --> 01:10:07,980
for any kind of academic understanding

1823
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:10,260
of this you want to understand how does

1824
01:10:15,410 --> 01:10:12,719
the cover-up work what are the politics

1825
01:10:17,450 --> 01:10:15,420
of the UFO phenomenon you need to

1826
01:10:19,550 --> 01:10:17,460
understand that and so I try to do that

1827
01:10:20,990 --> 01:10:19,560
both at the surface level and then at

1828
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:21,000
the the deeper level what I call the

1829
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:24,239
Breakaway civilization level

1830
01:10:27,709 --> 01:10:25,920
and then the other things that they did

1831
01:10:28,970 --> 01:10:27,719
with their contact and abduction you

1832
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:28,980
know the whole where the rubber meets

1833
01:10:32,870 --> 01:10:30,719
the road it's like what what is actually

1834
01:10:35,510 --> 01:10:32,880
happening here when you have individuals

1835
01:10:37,490 --> 01:10:35,520
who allege that they have had encounters

1836
01:10:39,770 --> 01:10:37,500
direct encounters with alien beings how

1837
01:10:41,810 --> 01:10:39,780
do we make sense out of this

1838
01:10:44,209 --> 01:10:41,820
and you know I try to try to deal with

1839
01:10:47,149 --> 01:10:44,219
that another thing that academicians

1840
01:10:49,790 --> 01:10:47,159
need to understand and I I haven't seen

1841
01:10:51,110 --> 01:10:49,800
anyone in the academic world or in the

1842
01:10:53,810 --> 01:10:51,120
world of ufology deal with this other

1843
01:10:56,930 --> 01:10:53,820
than myself which is to track the growth

1844
01:10:59,209 --> 01:10:56,940
of ufology against the backdrop of uh

1845
01:11:00,770 --> 01:10:59,219
our changing Society in general

1846
01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:00,780
including the birth of the internet

1847
01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:03,360
including just uh cultural and social

1848
01:11:07,130 --> 01:11:05,280
changes and the back and forth

1849
01:11:09,709 --> 01:11:07,140
interaction that ufology has had with

1850
01:11:11,570 --> 01:11:09,719
our society at large and how UFO

1851
01:11:12,830 --> 01:11:11,580
research has evolved over the years like

1852
01:11:15,590 --> 01:11:12,840
these are important

1853
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:15,600
things and I I

1854
01:11:19,250 --> 01:11:17,040
don't hear I don't really hear anything

1855
01:11:21,050 --> 01:11:19,260
from anywhere else about that and then

1856
01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:21,060
uh the I have one chapter on the science

1857
01:11:26,510 --> 01:11:24,540
of UFOs which is you know Weird Science

1858
01:11:29,209 --> 01:11:26,520
whether it's propulsion technology or

1859
01:11:32,090 --> 01:11:29,219
space-time or Consciousness itself that

1860
01:11:34,610 --> 01:11:32,100
is the the science of the UFO phenomenon

1861
01:11:36,410 --> 01:11:34,620
is extremely important to understand and

1862
01:11:37,850 --> 01:11:36,420
then the other uh other things is just

1863
01:11:40,490 --> 01:11:37,860
looking at them and looking at our

1864
01:11:43,669 --> 01:11:40,500
future who are they what do they want is

1865
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:43,679
a I I don't know if you can study this

1866
01:11:49,790 --> 01:11:47,520
academically precisely but I think

1867
01:11:51,950 --> 01:11:49,800
you can get into things like uh

1868
01:11:54,350 --> 01:11:51,960
comparative psychology evolutionary

1869
01:11:56,330 --> 01:11:54,360
psychology you can start asking what

1870
01:11:57,530 --> 01:11:56,340
might these other beings be interested

1871
01:12:04,250 --> 01:11:57,540
in

1872
01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:04,260
might be here well I have a lot of

1873
01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:06,719
thoughts on that and then the uh the

1874
01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:08,760
final chapter of that book is attempt to

1875
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:10,260
look into the future where are we going

1876
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:12,300
what is our trajectory what is the

1877
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:14,640
trajectory of this phenomenon within the

1878
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:18,239
context of our civilization so that book

1879
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:21,840
literally is the the textbook

1880
01:12:27,290 --> 01:12:25,440
that was explicitly my intention

1881
01:12:30,770 --> 01:12:27,300
so to the individual who wrote that

1882
01:12:33,050 --> 01:12:30,780
question I would just say hey go buy the

1883
01:12:35,149 --> 01:12:33,060
new and Expanded Edition of UFOs for the

1884
01:12:38,390 --> 01:12:35,159
21st century mind and I think it will

1885
01:12:40,550 --> 01:12:38,400
give you a very good foundation for

1886
01:12:41,930 --> 01:12:40,560
further academic analysis of this

1887
01:12:44,689 --> 01:12:41,940
subject

1888
01:12:46,910 --> 01:12:44,699
that was my intention yeah required

1889
01:12:49,490 --> 01:12:46,920
reading there you go to Eamonn thank you

1890
01:12:52,610 --> 01:12:49,500
amen um well Rich we're gonna head over

1891
01:12:55,070 --> 01:12:52,620
to patreon to answer a few more of our

1892
01:12:56,990 --> 01:12:55,080
more theoretical questions on the

1893
01:12:58,970 --> 01:12:57,000
phenomenon in Aliens

1894
01:13:01,550 --> 01:12:58,980
um so I'm really excited about that but

1895
01:13:04,669 --> 01:13:01,560
of course the burning question on

1896
01:13:08,209 --> 01:13:04,679
everyone's mind before we wrap up here

1897
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:08,219
volume three ah yes when is it happening

1898
01:13:12,050 --> 01:13:10,020
is it happening can you give us any

1899
01:13:14,270 --> 01:13:12,060
information on that yeah volume three of

1900
01:13:15,470 --> 01:13:14,280
UFOs in the National Security State ads

1901
01:13:17,810 --> 01:13:15,480
definitely happening there'll probably

1902
01:13:19,550 --> 01:13:17,820
be volume three and four realistically

1903
01:13:22,130 --> 01:13:19,560
it's just too much information but it's

1904
01:13:24,770 --> 01:13:22,140
happening uh right now I'm I'm uh in the

1905
01:13:26,450 --> 01:13:24,780
midst of writing a book on Usos so

1906
01:13:29,870 --> 01:13:26,460
unidentified submersible objects

1907
01:13:32,930 --> 01:13:29,880
underwater UFOs uh it's something that I

1908
01:13:36,110 --> 01:13:32,940
just jumped into uh for members of my

1909
01:13:38,990 --> 01:13:36,120
website uh close to a year ago and it

1910
01:13:44,330 --> 01:13:39,000
just led me down a fascinating path so

1911
01:13:47,330 --> 01:13:44,340
I'm doing a um a fairly uh

1912
01:13:49,490 --> 01:13:47,340
I I can't say comprehensive history of

1913
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:49,500
all Uso sightings but a good history

1914
01:13:54,169 --> 01:13:51,960
that deals with the progression of the

1915
01:13:55,490 --> 01:13:54,179
phenomenon as we've recorded it over the

1916
01:13:58,490 --> 01:13:55,500
years and that includes right up into

1917
01:14:01,130 --> 01:13:58,500
the present day so I'm very excited

1918
01:14:02,990 --> 01:14:01,140
about that book but uh volume three of

1919
01:14:04,430 --> 01:14:03,000
the National Security State series is

1920
01:14:06,110 --> 01:14:04,440
happening I've had a lot of

1921
01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:06,120
interruptions along the way

1922
01:14:11,209 --> 01:14:09,000
you know first was after disclosure then

1923
01:14:12,770 --> 01:14:11,219
was the original version of UFOs for the

1924
01:14:15,169 --> 01:14:12,780
21st century mine

1925
01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:15,179
uh and then you know

1926
01:14:21,290 --> 01:14:17,880
I did The Detour into looking into false

1927
01:14:23,090 --> 01:14:21,300
flags as a phenomenon and I actually did

1928
01:14:25,610 --> 01:14:23,100
not end up writing a book on false Flags

1929
01:14:27,709 --> 01:14:25,620
but I did a I did a TV series that I

1930
01:14:29,450 --> 01:14:27,719
wrote for Gaia on that and I did a lot

1931
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:29,460
of study of that but then I got back to

1932
01:14:34,010 --> 01:14:31,920
the UFO field and um

1933
01:14:36,590 --> 01:14:34,020
started up my website where I'm just

1934
01:14:38,330 --> 01:14:36,600
producing content content content

1935
01:14:40,130 --> 01:14:38,340
then I wrote the alien agendas a couple

1936
01:14:42,649 --> 01:14:40,140
of years ago like I've had all these

1937
01:14:45,290 --> 01:14:42,659
things get in the way of volume 3 of

1938
01:14:47,930 --> 01:14:45,300
UFOs and the National Security State but

1939
01:14:51,229 --> 01:14:47,940
I I will just tell everybody that I am

1940
01:14:54,350 --> 01:14:51,239
committed to finishing that book and um

1941
01:14:56,750 --> 01:14:54,360
I will definitely not rest until my

1942
01:14:58,250 --> 01:14:56,760
history takes the UFO subject up to the

1943
01:15:00,590 --> 01:14:58,260
present day

1944
01:15:01,970 --> 01:15:00,600
love it it's happening guys it's

1945
01:15:04,250 --> 01:15:01,980
happening yes well I'm looking forward

1946
01:15:06,110 --> 01:15:04,260
to both of those Rich um well let us

1947
01:15:08,330 --> 01:15:06,120
know where can we find everything you

1948
01:15:11,209 --> 01:15:08,340
are up to and where can people learn

1949
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:11,219
more about your work thank you uh well I

1950
01:15:14,689 --> 01:15:12,840
have a YouTube channel which is just

1951
01:15:15,890 --> 01:15:14,699
Richard Allen intelligent disclosure

1952
01:15:18,110 --> 01:15:15,900
it's

1953
01:15:19,490 --> 01:15:18,120
uh I just released something there the

1954
01:15:21,970 --> 01:15:19,500
other day

1955
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:21,980
uh my main efforts are at Richard

1956
01:15:27,229 --> 01:15:24,719
olinmembers.com that's uh I guess you

1957
01:15:29,090 --> 01:15:27,239
say it's a membership-based website so I

1958
01:15:30,830 --> 01:15:29,100
have members content there but I have a

1959
01:15:32,990 --> 01:15:30,840
lot of free information there I put up

1960
01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:33,000
free articles and free videos all the

1961
01:15:38,030 --> 01:15:35,280
time as well so people if they just want

1962
01:15:39,530 --> 01:15:38,040
to kind of saunter on by they can if you

1963
01:15:41,390 --> 01:15:39,540
want to get more serious into it you can

1964
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:41,400
take a cheap membership and I have a lot

1965
01:15:45,770 --> 01:15:43,320
of information in there for people so

1966
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:45,780
those are the two ways to reach me

1967
01:15:51,350 --> 01:15:48,480
perfect well again Rich you were the

1968
01:15:54,830 --> 01:15:51,360
first guest on my show you really helped

1969
01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:54,840
me uh springboard my ufological career

1970
01:15:59,810 --> 01:15:57,600
if I want to call it that um so it's

1971
01:16:01,669 --> 01:15:59,820
always fascinating talking to you we're

1972
01:16:03,770 --> 01:16:01,679
gonna head over to patreon to answer a

1973
01:16:06,410 --> 01:16:03,780
few more questions but I have to thank

1974
01:16:09,470 --> 01:16:06,420
you for your insights and uh and given

1975
01:16:11,149 --> 01:16:09,480
us the uh the Stone Cold Hard truth

1976
01:16:13,850 --> 01:16:11,159
about a lot of this because it's not

1977
01:16:16,130 --> 01:16:13,860
always fun and games like there's a lot

1978
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:16,140
at stake here uh thank you right first

1979
01:16:20,149 --> 01:16:18,239
of all Ryan I'm very always happy to be

1980
01:16:21,169 --> 01:16:20,159
on on your program and I love the work

1981
01:16:23,810 --> 01:16:21,179
that you do

1982
01:16:26,450 --> 01:16:23,820
uh but yes I think that all too little

1983
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:26,460
do we really hear the uncomfortable

1984
01:16:30,830 --> 01:16:29,040
truths uh from the UFO research

1985
01:16:31,729 --> 01:16:30,840
Community I just think that's sadly the

1986
01:16:33,470 --> 01:16:31,739
case

1987
01:16:35,330 --> 01:16:33,480
so I'm not saying that I'm right about

1988
01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:35,340
everything that I think I'm sure I mean

1989
01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:37,260
look I can make mistakes like anyone but

1990
01:16:41,689 --> 01:16:40,320
I do think that uh I have a perspective

1991
01:16:44,149 --> 01:16:41,699
that's a little different than that of

1992
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:44,159
many other researchers and

1993
01:16:46,610 --> 01:16:45,120
we want to get the different

1994
01:16:48,350 --> 01:16:46,620
perspectives out there so I've just

1995
01:16:50,220 --> 01:16:48,360
tried to share mine

1996
01:16:52,170 --> 01:16:50,230
Thank you Rich we appreciate it

1997
01:17:35,080 --> 01:16:52,180
[Music]